Oily engine case

[belfastguzzi]

Right hand side of engine is all oily, from bottom of barrel down.

I haven't been following 8V oil leak occurrences on any of the boards. Has this been much reported and if so, is there a particular reason identified?

[pete roper]

Right hand side of engine is all oily, from bottom of barrel down.

I haven't been following 8V oil leak occurrences on any of the boards. Has this been much reported and if so, is there a particular reason identified?

 

None that I've heard of.

 

Things I'd check.

 

1.) Temp Sender is now at the base of the RH cylinder in the Valley. I don't honestly know whether this is still screwed into the block as a 'Blind' hole or if it actually goes into an oil gallery. eeither way it doesn't actually work very well, (Temerature sensing issues ) but if it does go into a gallery it is a potential leak source.

 

2.) Does the bloke who did the cam recall have a decent torque wrench or does he just do stuff by 'Feel'? I'm a bit dubious about the whole prospect of un-clamping gaskets for the cam re-call without replacing them but having said that I've done mine, and dropped the sump which also uses a steel and snot gasket and re-used 'em and had no problems but if the proper proceedure wasn't followed during the cam service work the head could be cracked which would cause a leak. I seem to remember that the bloke who does your bike hasn't inspired you with confidence? Did he actually read the recall notes before undertaking the work?

 

If it ain't the sensor then I'd guess its a head and barrel job. Make sure your mech knows to order the correct thickness head gaskets, they ane now used to set squish correctly.

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

Thanks Pete

I just noticed all the wetness yesterday. It's useful to know that there hasn't been a particular problem area emerging.

I'm on holiday by the sand and sea at the moment.

[pete roper]

Thanks Pete

I just noticed all the wetness yesterday. It's useful to know that there hasn't been a particular problem area emerging.

I'm on holiday by the sand and sea at the moment.

 

 

What? You're in Australia? You have neither in Northern Ireland, although some of the West Coast of the Republic is nice and the Western Isles of Scoot-Lend have superb beaches but they usually have fat boxheads taking their clothes off on them!

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

Of course we have sea!

Look, peer through the cloud – what's that cold, dark, wet stuff??

[belfastguzzi]

None that I've heard of.

 

Things I'd check.

 

1.) Temp Sender is now at the base of the RH cylinder in the Valley. I don't honestly know whether this is still screwed into the block as a 'Blind' hole or if it actually goes into an oil gallery. eeither way it doesn't actually work very well, (Temerature sensing issues ) but if it does go into a gallery it is a potential leak source.

 

2.) Does the bloke who did the cam recall have a decent torque wrench or does he just do stuff by 'Feel'? I'm a bit dubious about the whole prospect of un-clamping gaskets for the cam re-call without replacing them but having said that I've done mine, and dropped the sump which also uses a steel and snot gasket and re-used 'em and had no problems but if the proper proceedure wasn't followed during the cam service work the head could be cracked which would cause a leak. I seem to remember that the bloke who does your bike hasn't inspired you with confidence? Did he actually read the recall notes before undertaking the work?

 

If it ain't the sensor then I'd guess its a head and barrel job. Make sure your mech knows to order the correct thickness head gaskets, they ane now used to set squish correctly.

 

Pete

 

As far as i can see, it looks like it must be coming from the gasket. I suppose that means a longish trip to the Guzzi dealer to get re-torqued. Do the bolts run from head right down through the barrels to the engine block?

[pete roper]

Dave, if it IS a leaking gasket a re-torque will achieve nothing as the gaskets, both head and base, are steel and incompressible. The good news is that this makes it unlikely that they are the culprits.

 

HAve you had the tank off and had a really good look.

 

Best way is to wash it down well and then when dry sprinkle some talc on it. Run it for a few minutes and watch where the talk discolours as it absorbs oil.

 

Pete

[gstallons]

I don't know if it is the same as my 87 or not.Mine was leaking oil between the head and cylinder. The o-rings beneath the rocer arm pedestals were bad. Replacing them fixed my problem. good luck.

[pete roper]

I don't know if it is the same as my 87 or not.Mine was leaking oil between the head and cylinder. The o-rings beneath the rocer arm pedestals were bad. Replacing them fixed my problem. good luck.

 

Nah, good idea but the 8V top end is completely different to the earlier pushrod motors. In fact the studs/castings, one especially, don't have any form of sealing on them, the special one is actually the oil delivery gallery for the cooling oil to the top end. Seal that and the whole top end'll melt in next to no time!!

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

Dave, if it IS a leaking gasket a re-torque will achieve nothing as the gaskets, both head and base, are steel and incompressible. The good news is that this makes it unlikely that they are the culprits.

 

HAve you had the tank off and had a really good look.

 

Best way is to wash it down well and then when dry sprinkle some talc on it. Run it for a few minutes and watch where the talk discolours as it absorbs oil.

 

Pete

As far as I can see, it is leaking from the barrel base joint. Even if the gaskets are incompressible, could it be that it's just not tight enough to make a complete seal and does need tightened more?

What is the normal practice with these steel gaskets? Are they meant to be use-once only and so should they be replaced once a joint is loosened?

[belfastguzzi]

Head torque was checked and all was correct.

New gaskets are being ordered.

 

When at the service agent, I had the rocker gap checked as things sounded rattly, especially around 3 to 4k, but it's hard to judge how rattly things are once you've become paranoid.

 

At least one gap was wide (it's hard to get precise info about anything).

 

 

Pete, what are yours doing now? Have the gap settings settled down?

[pete roper]

Dave, since I did the cam swap I had the issue with the locknut fiasco, (I dunno if you heard about that but it as all my fault and not relevent but I'll repeat it if you'd like a laugh!?) but apart from that it's just been running and running.

 

There is absolutely nothing *special* about my bike and I certainly don't baby it. It gets caned mercilessly on regular basis and if I take it out for a flog at the weekend on some of the better deserted roads around here it is very rare that I come home and the trip recorder shows a maximum speed under 200KPH. I don't bounce it off the rev limiter very often simply because there is no point but it does get a sound thrashing each and every time it goes out.

 

What do I do to it? I use Penrite SIN 10 engine oil, a high quality, fully synthetic 10/70 lubricant produced in Melbourne. The gearbox and CARC get SIN 75 from the same company which is a 75/80 Hypoid blah-blah Synth. I've set the suspension up carefully, (Something I believe may well have a 'Bearing' on CARC damage.) and I put the best petrol in it I can get my hands on. That's it. The sum total of ALL I've done to it since the cam recall. Prior to that I set the TPS and ballanced the TB's and checked everything else out at the first service and now I'm at 18,000-19,000 odd Km I haven't touched any of that again. Every time I plug the Axone in the TPS remains resolutely spot on. My DAsh has a very small amount of misting in it that only shows up if the bike is left parked in the sun for a while and one day I'll take it to bits, dry it and seal it properly but really at the moment i can't be arsed, I like riding it too much!

 

I'd really like to say that I did something *Special* or *Smart* to keep it running so well but I don't. I'd think most owners are far more anal about their bikes than I am about mine but I dunno? I just set it up right in the first place and it seems to have paid off as so far, touch wood, it's been everything I wanted and more.

 

Incidentally you say that your bloke has ordered the head and base gaskets? He does realize that there are three different thicknesses of head gaskets to set the squish height accurately? Without taking the top end apart he won't know which one he needs will he? So I hope he's ordered all three as if the wrong one is used it won't run right and could cause serious damage to the bottom end.

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

Incidentally you say that your bloke has ordered the head and base gaskets? He does realize that there are three different thicknesses of head gaskets to set the squish height accurately? Without taking the top end apart he won't know which one he needs will he? So I hope he's ordered all three as if the wrong one is used it won't run right and could cause serious damage to the bottom end.

 

Pete

I very much doubt that he is aware of that.

[pete roper]

I very much doubt that he is aware of that.

 

Oh Christ! OK, ask. The head gaskets come in three thicknesses 0.65mm, 0.85mm and 1.05mm. Now if your engine needs say an 0.65mm gasket and a 1.05mm one is fitted it will *probably* not make a huge amount of difference apart from meaning that one cylinder will work a bit harder than the other, there will be a greater chance of detonation on the cylinder with the *wide* squish clearance and it will produce significantly more pollution, most notably oxides of nitrogen.

 

If, on the other hand it has need of a 1.05mm gasket and a 0.65 is fitted there is a chance, albeit slim, that when you thrash it, if there is a bit of rod stretch and crank flex and the clearance is too tight that the piston may contact the head in the squish area. It may not be enough to make a noise, it may not be enough to damage the piston by crushing the top land into the top ring and 'Locking' it but in a very short period of time your sump will fill up with lumps of big end shell and it'll make the 'Dogga-Dogga' noise. Yes, I've found that out the hard way on race motors I was trying to run minimal squish on !

 

As I've said before MANY, MANY times. I don't think that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the Nuovo 8V. In fact I think it is a MUCH better design than Toddero's engine used in the Daytona, Centauro and MGS-01, (I can hear the hysterical screeching of 'Sacreledge! and 'Burn the Heretic!' from here and see the mob armed with burning brands and pitchforks swarming over the horizon from the direction of Sydney airport as I type! ). Like Toddero's engine though it isn't as stone axe simple and robust as the pushrod donks and it is expected to be worked on by MECHANICS rather than bored 18 ear old army conscripts and members of the Carribinieri. (Q. Why do Carribinieri always hang about in threes? A. One can read, One can write and the third is there to keep an eye on the two intelectuals!). It's not even as if you have to be a rocket scientist or super-dooper-whizz-bang race-type mechanic. I'm certainly not and the number of people I know who actually have the 'Greasy Thumb' can be counted on the fingers of one foot, (Apart from Mike Haven I can think of few people I've met of whom I'm in slack jawed awe.). Guzzi supplies MANUALS, admittedly they aren't the best in the world, they are hard to navigate and in some areas they ARE woefully inadequate but stuff like instructions for checking and setting the squish are there, in black and white, and as long as you can read english at a rate higher than four, three letter words per minute and your lips don't move while you are doing so it SHOULD be easy enough to understand how and if you ARE a mechanic then you should already KNOW the WHY. That's the reason a decent tradesman can charge what he does. Not because he knows HOW to do something, but because he knows WHY he. (Or She.) is doing it. Any bloody idiot can build a motor. Building one that works properly takes a bit more understanding and know-how.

 

One thing I respect you for Dave is that throughout all this you have dissed the company and the way its treated you, you have dissed your treatment by the Pommy importer and their rep but you haven't actually poured ill thought out shit on the machine which makes you at least three branches up the intelectual tree than a lot of the piss poor excuses for human being who've been whining away over at Guzzitech and sending my bloody blood pressure soaring .

 

One way or another we'll sort it eventually. Or you'll move on to something else, which would be sad as I think the 8V Griso is a truly great bike and i'd like you to share the enjoyment I get every time I take mine out for a good thrashing!!!!

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

Could be the safest thing is just to leave it and let it leak?

 

It wouldn't be safe if the oil leaks enough to get onto the back tyre though.

(Something I had more than a little experience with on the V.11! Great gushing timing chest gaskets – what a slippery trip that was, up the full length of Ireland. Or was that trip the bevel box / rear wheel seal? Both probably.)