Emissions Lesson for AZ(Phoenix/Tuscon)V11 owners

[XPLRN]

I'm a newbie with a question regarding getting my 2002 V11 Lemans to pass emissions requirements the lovely state I live in has imposed. I've went out and done some searching here and found this little morsel of info;

 

 

CO is where my bike is failing emissions.........the computer is stock and the bike has under 5K on it. I noted in the writing(above picture) that the computer has a MG sticker on it and the rubber plug to remove is under that. Well on my 2002 there is no sticker and I'm wondering if the computer has the same 270 degree sweep trim potentiometer for adjusting the CO?? Here are some pictures of what my computer looks like and I'm wondering if in fact that black round plug inside the red box is what I have to remove to access this 'trim potentiometer!?? Is there any way of knowing if in fact this computer on my bike is the same one mentioned in the above picture/screen capture as having the 270 degree sweep potentiometer.......short of actually taking a screwdriver, doing the range of movement and establishing the full range of adjustment of the CO trim potentiomenter??

 

Here are some pictures of my computer;

 

 

 

I know it's probably very simple stuff for people that have been around the MG's computer system however I just don't want to mess anything up and would like to have a bit more background knowledge that I'm approaching this correctly.

 

If you have any knowledge regarding this please post up as I'd sure like to get the bike to pass emissions so I can enjoy riding it!! Thanks!!

[Nils Bergendahl]

I'm a newbie with a question regarding getting my 2002 V11 Lemans to pass emissions requirements the lovely state I live in has imposed. I've went out and done some searching here and found this little morsel of info;

 

snip

 

If you have any knowledge regarding this please post up as I'd sure like to get the bike to pass emissions so I can enjoy riding it!! Thanks!!

 

Hello

 

There is no potentiometer on your bike.

You need a diagnostic tool or a computer and software to adjust CO.

 

Nils

[Paul Minnaert]

A dealer should be able to solve it for you, the tool that guzzi has for it is called Axeone

[XPLRN]

Hello

 

There is no potentiometer on your bike.

You need a diagnostic tool or a computer and software to adjust CO.

 

Nils

Dang.........here I thought it might be a simple DIY adjustment. What year bike is the first picture referencing with the writing about the computer having an adjustable CO trim potentiometer??

 

A dealer should be able to solve it for you, the tool that guzzi has for it is called Axeone

 

I Googled 'Axeone' with no luck.........is it a computer diagnostic tool or ???

[Paul Minnaert]

I Googled 'Axeone' with no luck.........is it a computer diagnostic tool or ???

 

 

ok its axone 2000 a handheld tester with a computer inside. Look for a guzzi/aprilia dealer, they have them.

[Tom M]

As Paul suggested, going to a dealer that has an Axeone tool and knows how to use it is your best bet for getting your fuel trim adjusted properly without shelling out too much money. An alternative to the dealer approach is technoresearch VDST software. If you buy that you'll still need access to and exhaust analyzer to set the fuel trim properly.

 

http://www.technoresearch.com/Products/VDS...ke_Features.htm

[Skeeve]

[EDIT: I just reread your original post & see you're in Phoenix...]

 

There's always the "do a complete tuneup & use fuel additives method." How far are you off from making their CO #s? I presume you live in Phoenix or Tucson, those are the only AZ areas I'm aware of that have emissions testing. Use some of the tricks the old VW drivers have been relying on:

 

You need a new air filter... No, newer than that!

 

Fresh spark plugs. If you've got more than 1k miles on them before the test, you need new ones. Seriously.

 

Buy some CA gas; it's so chock full of oxygenates that you shouldn't have any problem meeting the CO requirements! <_>

 

I assume you're using premium? If you aren't using CA gas to pass the test, you might want to try running regular [for those who don't know, AZ still sells real gasoline...] Yes, it'll ping like crazy under load, but since emissions tests aren't done under load, you should be able to sneak under the wire. Just dilute that regular w/ premium immediately on leaving the test facility, & especially before trying to ride the bike normally!

 

Go to Pep Boys & drop a bottle of carb cleaner in your tank [mostly methanol.] Again, something you do right before the test (& get it out of the tank asap, our plastic tanks don't like the stuff long term...)

 

Be sure to use the looser valve specs [.006" in, .008" exh] than the U.S. specs (which are way tight to control noise, & would sabotage your emissions.)

 

Best of luck. If you have any friends in other AZ counties, see if you can register your bike using their address, & save yourself the testing headache.

[fotoguzzi]

you have a 15m computer. the one you reference is a p8 from a EV or cal 1100i.

[Tom M]

you have a 15m computer. the one you reference is a p8 from a EV or cal 1100i.

 

The black plastic plug on the 15M housing that's shown in the pictures above is just a vent. As Nils mentioned, there's no potentiometer on the 15M.

[XPLRN]

[EDIT: I just reread your original post & see you're in Phoenix...]

 

There's always the "do a complete tuneup & use fuel additives method." How far are you off from making their CO #s? I presume you live in Phoenix or Tucson, those are the only AZ areas I'm aware of that have emissions testing. Use some of the tricks the old VW drivers have been relying on: First time I took it thru it was last October when I first got it and I'd done nothing to it. The CO came in at 6.36% and the "Idle Standard" is 5.50% . Flusterating however I got busy with life and now 1/2 a year+ later am trying to get it to pass emissions again. I went ahead and put NGK Iridium plugs in it and changed out the cylinder head temp sensor 'holder' to the all brass one as I'd read somewhere that would help with getting a more accurate input to the ECU with the potential for better MPG/better emissions. A respected friend suggested removing the air filter to lean it out a bit so I ended up gutting out the original air filter as I have a new OEM one to install after I get thru this mess. I also ran about a pint of alcohol in the fuel in an attempt to help it run cleaner.

 

The end result this last Saturday afternoon was a CO reading of 6.78% with the "Idle Standard" still being 5.50%. Sure flustrating as I had hoped to effect some positive change with the mods I'd done.

 

You need a new air filter... No, newer than that! I will have a brand new OEM filter installed before it leaves the garage again.

 

Fresh spark plugs. If you've got more than 1k miles on them before the test, you need new ones. Seriously.New NGK Iridums

 

Buy some CA gas; it's so chock full of oxygenates that you shouldn't have any problem meeting the CO requirements! <_>

 

I assume you're using premium? If you aren't using CA gas to pass the test, you might want to try running regular [for those who don't know, AZ still sells real gasoline...] Yes, it'll ping like crazy under load, but since emissions tests aren't done under load, you should be able to sneak under the wire. Just dilute that regular w/ premium immediately on leaving the test facility, & especially before trying to ride the bike normally! Yes, the regular is a faster burn rate fuel and that does help from what I understand.

 

Go to Pep Boys & drop a bottle of carb cleaner in your tank [mostly methanol.] Again, something you do right before the test (& get it out of the tank asap, our plastic tanks don't like the stuff long term...) I did put in some alcohol when I tried the last emissions attempt.........didn't really make much difference from the previous test........in fact it was a bit higher reading however I attribute that to testing at a different facility

 

Be sure to use the looser valve specs [.006" in, .008" exh] than the U.S. specs (which are way tight to control noise, & would sabotage your emissions.) I've not adjusted the valves yet.........however I'll certainly keep that "looser valve specs" in mind...........where are those specs for if the U.S. specs are tighter???

 

Best of luck. If you have any friends in other AZ counties, see if you can register your bike using their address, & save yourself the testing headache. Thanks!! That gets to be too much of a game...........does your drivers license address match the vehicle registration address and if not then why not!!???

 

Thanks to all that have helped me figure out that I've got a '15m' computer with no trim potentiometer adjustment vs. the 'p8'. The pictorial proof that Paul Minnaert provided as shown below was awesome!!

 

 

 

 

I'm curious.............is this the port/plug-in point where diagnostic equipment would be attached??

 

 

 

 

 

 

The next step after realizing that this is NOT a DIY type situation, thanks to numerous folks input here, is to take it to a professional shop and let them do the diagnostics and EGA(Exhaust Gas Analysis) tuneup. I was referred by a very knowledgeable MG dealer out of the Valley to this facility; http://www.azsbk.com/ . I have talked with a couple of the personnel there and they explained to me that they do a lot of Ducati tweeking and that the computer is the same unit. It was that the Ducati software they use has more parameters they can tweek to give it a more accurate EGA tuneup. They will also be doing the basic stuff that I've not getting hands on with yet.........TPS setting and idle air bleed synch.

 

I have a 9AM appointment tomorrow morning at Arizona Super Bike so hopefully I'll be running it thru the emissions station tomorrow afternoon with passing numbers on the CO!!

 

Thanks again to all that responded...........I'm learning about the MG and am appreciative of the helpfulness of the folks on this forum!! Kinda getting the understanding that MG's are unique/outside of the mainstream........of course My GF sez I am too and that's why I chose that bike!!

[fotoguzzi]

Kinda getting the understanding that MG's are unique/outside of the mainstream........of course My GF sez I am too and that's why I chose that bike!!

are you left handed too? is your computer a mac? we're a bunch of oddballs, welcome!

[XPLRN]

are you left handed too? is your computer a mac? we're a bunch of oddballs, welcome!

 

Everyone is born right-handed...........only a few of us rise above it!!!

 

Thanks for the welcome!!

[Skeeve]

Everyone is born right-handed...........only a few of us rise above it!!!

 

Actually, not. I was born a south-paw (as was my sister), but was forced at a young age to be a righty. Dad was fine w/ sis being lefty, but "he's a boy & will need to use tools. It's a right-handed world & he'll live longer/safer that way..." [0]

 

It's amazing how effective something as simple as only being allowed to eat with your right hand is at that critical stage of development.

 

BTW, I'm right-eye dominant too; I don't know if anyone has ever done studies on the correlation? [1]

 

Ride on!

 

 

[0] True. Lefties figure in a disproportionately high # of industrial accidents.

[1] I've got a software-switch I can toggle to left-eye dominance if I concentrate. Basically something fun to do when lying in bed on Sat. morning wondering if I want to get up yet...

[XPLRN]

Well I wanted to wrap this up with the results of all the emissions hassle I've been thru since purchasing My 2002 MG V11 Lemans;

 

1. 1st emissions attempt back in October 2008 when purchased = FAIL with a result of 6.36% on the CO reading - $19 given to the ADEQ(Arizona Dept. of Environmental Quality)

 

2. 2nd attempt on July 18th 2009 = Fail with a reading of 6.78% on the CO ; Another $19 to ADEQ due to not getting back within 2 months of the 10/2008 test for a free retest, My bad!!

 

3. Took the V11 to Arizona Super Bikes and had it EGA(Exhaust Gas Analysis) tuned on July 22nd 2009 . They documented on the work order that the bike was EGA tuned to 3.30% average on the two cylinders. YEA!! I should be able to smoke thru emissions now I'm thinking!! $55 for the work and I'm thinking that if that makes it pass it was a great investment.

 

4. Free re-test done on July 27th due to failed test on July 18th = FAIL with a result of 6.35% on the CO reading.

 

O.K. ..........NOW I'm getting pretty frustrated and losing My good humor. I call up Arizona Super Bikes and explain the situation. I happened to chat with Greg, the very first person that had impressed me with his knowledge of MG's, emissions testing and related scenarios. We chat and he shares with me all the frustrations he's had with ADEQ emissions hassles with the Ducati's and MG's that he sells and has to make "street legal/emission compliant" . He stated the main problem they fought with emissions on the Ducati's and MG's was with the computer they used back in the late 90's/early 2000's (the Marelli 15M). The computer has a operations design feature that every time your ignition key is turned on and the computer is powered up(bike running??)there is a 3 minute enrichment cycle before dropping back to the standard factory run settings or the settings tuned by people with the correct computer gear. He also mentioned that I could bring it back and they would QA the tune and make sure I didn't have some freaky sensor mal-function while riding it less than 200 miles since the tune was done. I thought that was very fair and started thinking about what to do.

 

I wanted to do an independent QA of the tune work already done by the Arizona Super Bikes technician and attempt to validate the newly shared info about the 3 minute enrichment cycle. It was starting to make sense that ever time I pull into the emissions testing facility they make you turn off the motorcycle while checking the VIN # and getting the information brought up on their computers. Hence the fact that every time I restarted the bike/turned the key on I was running in the enrichment mode while the idle test was being conducted.

 

Applying some common sense logic I decided to go over to the emissions station closest to Arizona Super Bikes for the next emissions test. That way it would be easy to ride over to Arizona Super Bikes and have them do the offered EGA re-test to figure out what was wrong if it didn't pass. Sure fun stuff on a 114 degree day at 1PM in the afternoon!!

 

 

5. So I ride 50+ miles to the emissions station and talk with the manager guy, Dan, about the newly learned computer enrichment issue and how it jacks with the idle reading they take. He's very cool and sez that there is nobody in line so sure I can bring it in and let it idle(with the big fan on it) for 3-4 minutes before they run the test. Well SOB.........it SMOKES THRU with a 2.90 CO reading!! YEA!!! I gladly pay another $19 to the ADEQ and get out of there!!

 

My next stop was at Arizona Super Bikes to personally shake Greg's hand and thank him for providing me the key of knowledge on how to deal with the emissions issue I'd been fighting!! My hat's off to Greg and Kyle at Arizona Super Bikes for getting my V11 emissions compliant so I can now ride this fun bike on the Arizona roads.....legally!!!

 

As I look back at how consistent the FAIL numbers were on the CO readings it sure does validate the computer issue Greg had told me about. Check this out;

 

1st time = 6.36%

2nd time = 6.78%

3rd time = 6.35%

 

Each time the V11 was being idle tested the computer was operating in an enrichment mode, kinda makes sense now!!

 

Sooo after spending appproximately $225-250 the problem of getting the bike licensed to ride on the street is over!!!

 

$75 = Arizona Dept. Of Transportation one year registration

$57 = $19x3 to ADEQ for the emissions testing

$55 = Arizona Super Bikes for EGA tune

$50-60 = new Iridium plugs, new air filter and the all brass cylinder head temp sensor holder

 

I hope any Arizona V11 owner that is having problems with getting their V11 thru emissions will cyber-stumble across this thread and benefit from the knowledge I've gained thru this process. I think AZ is the ONLY state that requires MC emissions testing, anyone else know of a state doing MC emissions testing currently!?? Anyways now the knowledge of how to approach the emissions testing will be out there if any other states in the future decide to start emmisions testing MC's .

 

I'm also curious to know if this computer 3 minute enrichment cycle is common knowledge with the technically knowledgeable folks here!!! ?????

[jrt]

Wow, that's quite a story.

 

I had no idea about the '3 minute rule'.

 

Thanks for sharing.