Emissions Lesson for AZ(Phoenix/Tuscon)V11 owners

[Dan M]

2) Everyone in a testing facility is supposed to know that a tested vehicle is supposed to be thoroughly warmed up before starting the test.

 

Yep, razor sharp bunch there all right.

[Greg Field]

Though you might not recognize the symptoms -- they're more of an irritation than a "problem" -- but a considerable irritation nonetheless.

 

OMFG, Hatchetrack can parse words better than Bill Clinton. I only help care for 100 of these bikes. I guess I'm not qualified to detect "irritations."

[ScottS]

Yep, razor sharp bunch there all right.

 

 

True, but a thoroughly warmed up machine that is shut off to read the VIN and then re-started, would the 3 minute rich cycle start over ?

[dlaing]

True, but a thoroughly warmed up machine that is shut off to read the VIN and then re-started, would the 3 minute rich cycle start over ?

 

Yep!

 

And to split hairs, technically it is not 3 minutes but a specific count of revolutions.

So, if you double the RPMs, the time (read 'irritation' if you are impatient) is cut in half.

 

If the engine is not shut off at an electrical switch but simply stalls, I don't think it would it need to cycle again, but I am not positive about that.

[Greg Field]

Enquiring minds, well, just HAVE to know . . .

[dlaing]

Enquiring minds, well, just HAVE to know . . .

 

Sorry, I did not mean to add another crap-fest sub-topic.

I better get my O2 sensor out and verify my claim for the national enquirers or inquisitors or whatever they be.

FWIW I just read through some of this thread. Impressive.

And I see Dan beat me to splitting hairs about the rotation count vs time.

Apologies for duplicating info and belated thanks to Dan for clearing up potentially mis-leading info.

 

BTW isn't Tucson exempt from the test?

[dlaing]

Well, since we're talking emissions, CO will stay higher longer with the slow reacting OE sensor set up. Once fully warmed up though, the maintained higher and slow to respond temp reading and associated leanness will cause hydrocarbons (the other EPA measured gas) to soar. Just another reason that a fast accurate way to read head temp is important.

Sorry, my turn to split hairs, again.

The EPA measures more than just CO and HC.

From what I could gather from Google, the EPA regulates the quantity of CO, NOx and HC per distance ridden.

[XPLRN]

Sorry, my turn to split hairs, again.

The EPA measures more than just CO and HC.

From what I could gather from Google, the EPA regulates the quantity of CO, NOx and HC per distance ridden.

 

Good times......I'm lucky that I shave my head so don't have to deal the the split hair issues.

 

Yes, EPA is more strict on the automotive requirements than the MC requirements. On the required emissions testing for MC's it's only HC and CO at an idle setting. IF on the first attempt you don't pass at idle then the following "free re-test" they do a 'conditioning' run where you hold the engine RPM at 2400 to 2800 for about 20-30 seconds and then you idle back down and they test again. So only the two levels currently on my 2002 V11.

 

Regarding testing in Tuscon I'm not certain but have heard that they have the same emissions requirements. Also IF you work in either of those counties where Phoenix and Tuscon are located the law states that your vehicle has to comply to the emissions requirements as you are using your vehicle on a daily basis in those counties.

 

Regarding intelligence at the emissions testing centers. It varies........the standard procedure is to pull in the MC, shut off the engine, check the VIN # and do the computer input. Then they ask you to start up the MC and the test starts. They CAN be total pricks and act like Dog figures and try to control the situation.......however all you have to do is explain that "I THE CONSUMER" am paying for this and you need to work with me. LUCKILY where my last emissions test was done the managing supervisor was cool and listened to me explain the problem I'd recently became knowledgeable about regarding the 3 minute deal. Since there were no other vehicles waiting in line he was agreeable to letting me sit there and idle the bike for 3-4 minutes before the test. At the time I didn't know it was an RPM count that controlled the enrichment time cycle. Sooo I'm presuming that at my next emissions test I could sit there for 1/2 a minute at 6K RPM and be good to go........however I don't like to do that in a no load situation.

 

Now that the bike is finally tagged/street legal I'll be going out and doing some riding in our lovely warm weather to get a feel for the heat soak issues regarding the 3.4 oz. brass mass and how that does or does not affect my bike.

[GuzziMoto]

Now that the bike is finally tagged/street legal I'll be going out and doing some riding in our lovely warm weather to get a feel for the heat soak issues regarding the 3.4 oz. brass mass and how that does or does not affect my bike.

From what I understand there is no way your Guzzi can work correctly with the stock engine temp sensor. It has way to much thermal mass and only measures the temp of liquids, or atleast that is what I've heard on the internet so it must be true. My V11, well it does run great with the stock engine temp sensor. But it must be a fluke. The internet wouldn't lie.

[Dan M]

From what I understand there is no way your Guzzi can work correctly with the stock engine temp sensor. It has way to much thermal mass and only measures the temp of liquids, or atleast that is what I've heard on the internet so it must be true. My V11, well it does run great with the stock engine temp sensor. But it must be a fluke. The internet wouldn't lie.

 

Evidently you don't understand much. Nobody ever said it can't work. If you comprehend what you read you'll see that the point that has been made (a number of times) is if you have lean issues at part throttle in hot weather, the extra mass exacerbates the problem and the retro fit helps that issue.

Some people, regardless of if they understand a principal can not stop themselves from stirring the shit. You are well on your way to getting another thread closed if that is your goal. Pitiful life that is.

[Dan M]

Regarding intelligence at the emissions testing centers. It varies........the standard procedure is to pull in the MC, shut off the engine, check the VIN # and do the computer input. Then they ask you to start up the MC and the test starts. They CAN be total pricks and act like Dog figures and try to control the situation.......however all you have to do is explain that "I THE CONSUMER" am paying for this and you need to work with me. LUCKILY where my last emissions test was done the managing supervisor was cool and listened to me explain the problem I'd recently became knowledgeable about regarding the 3 minute deal. Since there were no other vehicles waiting in line he was agreeable to letting me sit there and idle the bike for 3-4 minutes before the test. At the time I didn't know it was an RPM count that controlled the enrichment time cycle. Sooo I'm presuming that at my next emissions test I could sit there for 1/2 a minute at 6K RPM and be good to go........however I don't like to do that in a no load situation.

 

You are exactly right about the lane operators. Seems it is their only power on the planet so they use it. Good timing getting the supervisor who understands not everything has to be in the box.

Revving it will speed things up but also build quite a bit more heat.

 

Now go & enjoy your new steed.

[luhbo]

Evidently you don't understand much. ...Some people, regardless of if they understand a principal can not stop themselves from stirring the shit. ....

 

Well, the main protagonists of this stinky thread are ironically those who have understood the least of what they write of in so bloated words.

 

Hubert

[XPLRN]

Well, the main protagonists of this stinky thread are ironically those who have understood the least of what they write of in so bloated words.

 

Hubert

 

As the OP of this thread I'd like it to be known the reason for sharing my challenge of getting the V11 thru emissions was to provide information that might benefit someone else in the future that is faced with the same dilemma.

 

There is a lot of knowledge here on this forum and being new to the MG world I'm happy to be learning more about what makes them tick.

[luhbo]

Sorry for being so easily misunderstandable. The stinky thread was not your one, not all. The stinky thread I meant is the one DanM reffered to, this endless story of ultra low mass air gap engine temp sensors. A story telling tales of temperature sensors improved by putting in an isolating air gap That's just too much.

 

Hubert