twhitaker Posted October 25, 2003 Posted October 25, 2003 You would be amazed at how well the ammonia squirt gun works. Minimal capital outlay. If he comes back it is because you missed his eyes and or nose.
Janusz Posted October 25, 2003 Posted October 25, 2003 It is so strange to read about everyday people owning firearms. Here in Holland we know that whoever carries a firearm is either a policeman or a criminal. To be clear: I'm not being opiniated, it's just strange (...and a little bit frightening). If law abiding citizens were free to carry guns everywhere and policemen and criminals were not then the whole society would be much safer and polite, Jaap, think about it. As an easy example 9/11 would never happen, would it? I still remember like in 60-ies stewardess would help you stow your rifle in overhead bin on the plane on your return trip from some hunting. Mass shootings or highjacking were not even in vocabulary then. The society has most of the things upside down nowadays. I love the idea of ammonia in the squirt gun for the dogs.
Admin Jaap Posted October 25, 2003 Posted October 25, 2003 It is so strange to read about everyday people owning firearms. Here in Holland we know that whoever carries a firearm is either a policeman or a criminal. To be clear: I'm not being opiniated, it's just strange (...and a little bit frightening). If law abiding citizens were free to carry guns everywhere and policemen and criminals were not then the whole society would be much safer and polite, Jaap, think about it. Without wanting to start a discussion, I think that's a bit to easy put. One of the problems is of course that criminals who are a doing their "job" well aren't recognized as such. So they can get their hands on firearms easily. And IMHO a world or country were everybody could bear arms freely is dictated by fear. One answer and then back to topic. btw, what are the gunlaws in Canada?
Paul Minnaert Posted October 25, 2003 Posted October 25, 2003 back to the topic. I relocated the horns to the front, left from the headlight, pointing down, so the noise goes out. My wires were even long enough. Mayby different on the v11.
docc Posted October 26, 2003 Posted October 26, 2003 .Without wanting to start a discussion We've all been so respectful to one another on this board. Here we are from all over the world, in so many different cultures and political climates and yet we come together to enjoy these motorcycles and help one another enjoy them to the maximum! Here in Tennessee there are so many armed that if it were that great a threat we would all be dead already. Opening fire on the neighbor (or his dogs) is not very commonplace. The pepper spray in the tankbag is surely a good 'training method.' And the subject of horns will probably always bring up the subject of dogs. I know of riders killed or injured by fur magnetics. The stock 'squeekers' just seem to cry out, "here boy! Something fun to play with!" The black Fiamms in the stock location don't seem too obtrusive for the added safety and effectiveness.
dlaing Posted October 26, 2003 Posted October 26, 2003 Eureka! I can replace the horns with windshield washer fluid squirters, loaded with ammonia. It would also double as a face shield cleaner. PS I highly recommend the movie "Bowling for Columbine" It gave me a whole new understanding on guns and America.
Guest JohnInNH Posted October 26, 2003 Posted October 26, 2003 "PS I highly recommend the movie "Bowling for Columbine" It gave me a whole new understanding on guns and America" This "movie" is fiction!!! Pure crap! If you believe the crap in that movie you have been duped just as the makers intended to. It was made to manipulate people by presenting their opinion as fact when in fact it was otherwise. The Truth about Bowling for Columbine :finger: Michael Moore Read and educate yourself. If you need to distort the truth to convince people about you point of view than probably you point of view is BS.
Guest Brian Robson Posted October 26, 2003 Posted October 26, 2003 Did I miss Michael Moore's opinion on horn relocation?
docc Posted October 26, 2003 Posted October 26, 2003 Who needs a horn when you've got a Spandau mounted between the clip-ons? That would lend a real retro look and harken back to Carlo's early days with Ravelli at the stick.
al_roethlisberger Posted October 26, 2003 Posted October 26, 2003 UPDATE: Recent Michael Moore Interview on Guerrilla News ************************************************ Gosh, tell us how you really fell John ....sorry you found "Bowling for Columbine" so upsetting though I found it to be a an excellent and provocative film I recommended it all the time, especially when it was still relatively unknown and making the indie theater circuit... and still do. It's certainly opinionated, but then again is that a surprise? My only major issue that left me somewhat uncomfortable was the final segment and ambush confrontation with Charlton Heston. I don't care for the NRA, but I felt empathetically uncomfortable for Mr Heston. But then again, I think that's a sign of effective journalism... ...that the film can make everyone feel a bit uncomfortable and off-balance at times regardless of whether you agree with the message or not... making you think I particularly found the segments with Terry Nichol's brother humorously disturbing, and the inteview with Marilyn Manson refreshingly surprising... and reassuring. And all nit-picking aside, I believe that the holistic message of the govt, media, and popular entertainment potentially driving increased violence in the USA was spot-on. The statistics regarding gun violence, ownership, and laws were particularly interesting. And in the end, Moore simply posed questions... again per the definition of provocative.... making one think. He rarely answered any, just instead posing the question: "...if other countries with similar levels of gun ownership don't have similar gun violence rates, what is different in America?" That question after all especially in the conext of tragedies such as Columbine, and not simply how terrible guns are, etc (after all Moore was raised with guns) is what he leaves us with... and I think it's relevant. Unfortunately I've found that many have let specific buttons get pushed by the film, which of course is one of the film's many effective devices.... but then get so wrapped up in those nit-pick issues that they miss the larger message, and relevant questions Moore leaves us to ponder. ... instead run off track by red-herrings Is Moore a genius? Is he 100% infallable, or prescient? I don't think so, but I do think his film was especially relevent in these troubled times. And I'm particularly interested in his next film which will be focusing on the Bush family's close relationship with the Saud and Bin Laudin family(which BTW, in the days after 9/11 when nearly no American could fly, the President supposedly had 18 members of the Bin Ladin family flown by chartered jet back to Saudi Arabia) Fun huh It should guarantee no Christmas White House invitation for Mr. Moore Interesting link you provided though, and because I am a critical thinker and often considered a contrarian and somthing of a conspiracy theorist(especially when it comes to big business, and the military industrial complex that is our country) .... I took the time to read the entire link. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that's one of the great things about our nation, but from a critical point of view, I can't find that Mr. Hardy makes much of a case beyond focusing on the Willie Horton example, which Moore responds to here: Michael Moore's Wacko Attacko Page I can guarantee to you, without equivocation, that every fact in my movie is true. Three teams of fact-checkers and two groups of lawyers went through it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that every statement of fact is indeed an indisputable fact. Trust me, no film company would ever release a film like this without putting it through the most vigorous vetting process possible. The sheer power and threat of the NRA is reason enough to strike fear in any movie studio or theater chain. The NRA will go after you without mercy if they think there's half a chance of destroying you. That's why we don't have better gun laws in this country – every member of Congress is scared to death of them. Well, guess what. Total number of lawsuits to date against me or my film by the NRA? NONE. That's right, zero. And don't forget for a second that if they could have shut this film down on a technicality they would have. But they didn't and they can't – because the film is factually solid and above reproach. In fact, we have not been sued by any individual or group over the statements made in "Bowling for Columbine?" Why is that? Because everything we say is true – and the things that are our opinion, we say so and leave it up to the viewer to decide if our point of view is correct or not for each of them. So, faced with a thoroughly truthful and honest film, those who object to the film's political points are left with the choice of debating us on the issues in the film – or resorting to character assassination. They have chosen the latter. What a sad place to be. Actually, I have found one typo in the theatrical release of the film. It was a caption that read, "Willie Horton released by Dukakis and kills again." In fact, Willie Horton was a convicted murderer who, after escaping from furlough, raped a woman and stabbed her fiancé, but didn't kill him. The caption has been permanently corrected on the DVD and home video version of the film and replaced with, "Willie Horton released. Then rapes a woman." My apologies to Willie Horton and the Horton family for implying he is a double-murderer when he is only a single-murderer/rapist. And my apologies to the late Lee Atwater who, on his deathbed, apologized for having engineered the smear campaign against Dukakis (but correctly identified Mr. Horton as a single-murderer!). Mr Hardy otherwise doesn't make much of a case proving that the rest of bulk of the 2hr film is fictitious or otherwise without merit. Apologies, but alone with his two primary examples of the Willie Horton error, and his nit-picking about time and place of when Mr. Heston uttered "from my cold dead hands".... Mr Hardy doesn't meet the burden of discrediting the bulk of the film, it statistics, nor it's overall message. And even then, several of the cited issues are debatable or answered by Moore in the post above. The nature of their being debateable certainly being true in the case of statistics, which we all know can be manipulated as needed But there are bigger questions than the year the NRA and KKK were founded, and I think ultimately Mr. Moore doesn't attempt to answer them, and instead leaves us with to ponder and draw our own conclusions.... which is how he closes the film. And I find that constructive, and appreciate the approach. Again, I'm sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy the film, but I would invite you to give it another chance from a different perspective versus focusing on the red-herrings in the film, as Mr. Hardy as done. By doing so, he misses the point, and it's to his loss IMHO ...or of course, he is simply welcome to his opinion, as you are certainly as well al Some fun Columbine quotes and trivia Quotes from Bowling for Columbine: Michael Moore: Why not use Gandhi's way? He didn't have guns, and he beat the British Empire. John Nichols: I'm not... familiar with that. Describing a toy gun he got for Christmas Michael Moore: This was my first gun. I couldn't wait to go out and shoot up the neighborhood. Pool Player: They kicked me out for 380 days, or 165 days, or whatever a normal school year is. Graphic on Canadian news show Newsperson: New Speedbumps! Michael Moore: Well, here's my first question. Do you think it's kind of dangerous handing out guns at a bank? Michael Moore: Now wait a minute... The Constitution says you've got the right to bear arms. What do you think 'arms' means? John Nichols: Well it's not like these... waves his arms John Nichols: It means we ought to have handguns if we want to. Michael Moore: What about nuclear weapons? Should you be able to have weapons-grade plutonium? pauses John Nichols: There's a lot of wackos out there. Michael Moore: Thank you for not shooting me. Michael Moore: What if I had a spear? Marilyn Manson: The two by-products of that whole tragedy were, violence in entertainment, and gun control. And how perfect that that was the two things that we were going to talk about with the upcoming election. And also, then we forgot about Monica Lewinsky and we forgot about, uh, the President was shooting bombs overseas, yet I'm a bad guy because I, well I sing some rock-and-roll songs, and who's a bigger influence, the President or Marilyn Manson? I'd like to think me, but I'm going to go with the President. Michael Moore: Do you know that on the day of the Columbine massacre, the US dropped more bombs on Kosovo than any other day? Marilyn Manson: I do know that, and I think that's really ironic, that nobody said 'well maybe the President had an influence on this violent behavior' Because that's not the way the media wants to take it and spin it, and turn it into fear, because then you're watching television, you're watching the news, you're being pumped full of fear, there's floods, there's AIDS, there's murder, cut to commercial, buy the Acura, buy the Colgate, if you have bad breath they're not going to talk to you, if you have pimples, the girl's not going to @#!#$# you, and it's just this campaign of fear, and consumption, and that's what I think it's all based on, the whole idea of 'keep everyone afraid, and they'll consume.' Chris Rock: You don't need no gun control. You know what you need? Bullet control. I think all bullets should cost $5000. You know why? If a bullet cost $5000 there'd be no more innocent bystanders. Michael Moore: If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now? Marilyn Manson: I wouldn't say a single word to them, I would listen to what they have to say and that's what no one did. about accusations that he was responsible for Columbine killings Marilyn Manson: I definitely can see why they would pick me. Because I think it's easy to throw me face on the TV, because in the end, I'm a poster boy for fear. Because I represent what everyone is afraid of, because I say and do whatever I want. Filling out an application for a bank account Michael Moore: "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective? Or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?" Well, I've never been committed to a mental institution. What does that mean, have I "ever been adjudicated mentally defective"? Bank employee: It would be something involved with a crime. Michael Moore: Oh, with a crime. Okay, so if I'm just normally mentally defective but not criminal... Michael Moore: The media, the corporations, the politicians...have all done such a good job of scaring the American public, it's come to the point where they don't need to give any reason at all. Archive press conference Charlton Heston: (At an National Rifles Association meeting) I have only five words for you: FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS! Michael Moore: It was the morning of April 20th 1999, and it was pretty much like any other morning in America. The Farmer did his chores. The milkman made his deliveries. The President bombed another country whose name we couldn't pronounce. Out in Fargo, North Dakota, Cary McWilliams went on his morning walk. Back in Michigan, Mrs Hughes welcomed her students for another day of school. And out in a little town in Colorado, two boys went bowling at 6 in the morning. Yes, it was a typical day in the United States of America. Last Line Michael Moore: Yes, it was a glorious time to be an American. Michael Moore: Do you like living here? Canadian: I like it very much. notices his T-shirt that reads "I *heart* NY Michael Moore: And your T-shirt? Canadian: The T-shirt, too. John Nichols: I use the pen, because the pen is mightier than the sword. But you must always keep a sword handy for when the pen fails. Michael Moore: In George Bush's America the poor were not a priority. And after September 11th correcting America's social problems took a back seat to fear, panic and a new set of priorities. Archive speech Michael Moore: In your mind, somebody might break into your house to harm you or your family. What does that person look like? Man wearing '@#!#$# Everybody' Cap: You. Michael Moore: Me? Man wearing '@#!#$# Everybody' Cap: Her. Michael Moore: Her? Man wearing '@#!#$# Everybody' Cap: Him. Michael Moore: Really? Man wearing '@#!#$# Everybody' Cap: The camera guy. Anybody. There could be a gun in the camera for all I know. Michael Moore: I left the Heston estate atop Beverly Hills and walked back into the real world. To an America living and breathing in fear. Where gun sales are now at an all record high. And where, in the end, it all comes back to 'Bowling for Columbine'. Marilyn Manson: When I was a kid growing up, music was the escape. That's the only thing that had no judgments. You know, you put on a record, and it's not going to yell at you for dressing the way you do. It's going to make you feel better about it. John Nichols: I sleep at night with a gun under my pillow. Michael Moore: Aw, come on. Everyone says that. narrating Matt Stone: Yeah, Columbine, it's just, you know, a crappy school in the middle of a bunch of crappy houses. Trivia about Bowling for Columbine: In May 2002, became first documentary to compete in the Cannes Film Festival's main competition in 46 years. After two years of trying to get an interview with Heston, Charlton, Moore, Michael (II) was going to give up. Showing up at Heston's house was totally spontaneous - on the way to the airport, a staff member suggested that they find his house using a star map. The highest-grossing documentary of all time. Because the film didn't fit neatly into any established categories at Cannes, the Jury created a special 55th Anniversary Award just for the film. At the Cannes film festival, the movie received a standing ovation that lasted 13 minutes. In 2003 became the first documentary to be nominated for and then to win a WGA Award for its screenplay. Bowling for Columbine won the Best Documentary award at the Oscars, sparking a controversy when Moore denounced the Bush administration on stage. (...and it turns out he was right, no WMD, no Saddam Al Qaeda link, etc) The first rough cut of the film ran about six hours. There have been reports that many of the facts Michael Moore presents in the film are erroneous, sparking some groups to petition the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences to revoke his Best Documentary Oscar. However Michael Moore (II) backed up all the facts in the film on his website, proving that the reports were erroneous.
docc Posted October 26, 2003 Posted October 26, 2003 I'm glad Max didn't ask anything emotionally charged or controversial like, " where should I put my turn signals?"
al_roethlisberger Posted October 27, 2003 Posted October 27, 2003 ..... damn straight!! Don't make me pull this car over
dlaing Posted October 27, 2003 Posted October 27, 2003 Should we take this discussion to the SouthWest List? http://www.topica.com/lists/MGNOC-SW/read You don't have to live in the south west to participate. You just have to have an OPINION (but even NON-Opinions will do.) Right now the politics have leveled off, but throw in a subjectline like "Gun Control Makes ME Want To KILL Someone" or "I told you the War was a mistake" and watch the fun begin. Good bunch of guys, opinion aside.
docc Posted October 27, 2003 Posted October 27, 2003 It occurred to me while polishing the frame welds on the sport ( yeah, you're lucky if you can ride yours) that many cannot fathom that everyday people are allowed to own motorcycles. And that without a substantial dose of moral responsibilty these evil conveyances of carnal desires ( well, the Sports anyway, maybe not the serene and mature LeMans) are a scourge of society and should be banned.
dlaing Posted October 27, 2003 Posted October 27, 2003 ... are a scourge of society and should be banned. You'll feel better when you get your bike back on the road. Just to make you feel better, I could not ride today because of San Diego's fires. I had set aside the day to go and put the stock pipes back on and go for a ride...but lo and behold, sh^t happens. On a more important note.... Best wishes and prayers to V11Sport owner Jim Phillips who probably lost 2 cats, his house, and his Guzzi in today's fire. It is truely a nightmare here for many people. I am one of the lucky ones, sitting at home, trying to conserve water and electricity, windows closed, with irritated eyes and a headache from all the smoke
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