Redline Heavy Shockproof,front and rear boxes?

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .been unusually nothchy last couple o rides. . .

Another coupla thoughts, Michael.

 

As far as diagnosing deteriorating shifting goes, following the "check the easy stuff first" principle, I've solved progressively missed upshifting symptoms on 2 of 2 V11's (including my own) that had the linkage bolt on the shift arm located immediately outside the gearbox start to back out. In both cases, crisp, accurate shifting returned after threadlocking them, and the prior symptoms did not reappear. You need to have the starter motor off for access. (No way around this.) I highly recommend the wisdom of disconnecting the battery ground first, and marking the shift arm on its shaft before taking it off to make sure the splines go back together in proper orientation.

 

As noted in a recent thread on this, the condition of the linkage can be easily checked in 10 seconds without tools with a quick look-see-feel under the starter motor.

 

To expand on Dan's suggestion above on lubing the shift lever pivot -- Both the aforementioned V11's came from Mandello with this joint dry as a bone, and both had begun to loosen up substantially and rust before I lubed them properly with boat trailer wheel bearing grease. The pivot shaft is a socket-head bolt that appears on the outside of the pork chop, and can be adjusted for end float at the self-locking nut on its inboard end to take up the slop so it doesn't rattle. Properly set up, the linkage is virtually slop-free, and will allow faultless shifting -- assuming the internal racheting pawls are adjusted correctly at the external acorn locknut adjuster, and that all is well inside the gearbox.

 

Hope this helps.

[dlaing]

Dan:

 

Why do you always think I am speaking only to you? I was speaking to MZNYC. Have a drink. And relax.

 

As for RLSH? I've used it in two bikes for a total of about 40,000 miles. It works great, for a while. Pretty soon, your bike will start to show a degradation in shifting, and to get back what you had, you have to change the oil. On my bikes, this happens at about 4,000-5,000 miles. I have concluded that the stuff is too expensive for those change intervals. Otherwise, I love it and think it might be a good choice for someone who doesn't put on a lot of miles.

That has been my experience too, counter to Ratchethack's quotes from Redline's "expert" about Shockproof's need for, what was it , never needing changing??? Or what did there expert say? This expert is either a liar or misinformed mistaken.

 

EDIT here is the quote:

Mike, if you speak to Redline directly on this (as I did per previous posts -- call Dave in the Tech Dep't. at their World Wide HQ in Benicia, CA, 800 624-7958), they will tell you that Shockproof Heavy doesn't need changing a-tall -- in either trans or bevel drive!

 

That's right -- NO CHANGE INTERVAL.

ROTFLMAO!

EDIT for clarification, ROTFLMAO means hahahaheeheeehahaha.

I believe it is laughable to believe that shockproof need no changing at all.

[mznyc]

Dan:

 

I was speaking to MZNYC. Have a drink. And relax.

How did I get dragged into this?,I just asked a question.If I was anymore relaxed my eyes would be closed!!

Who needs television when youv'e got this forum?It's like reading a Young One's episode,friggin looney bin it is ,...Ha,Ha

 

Thanks for all the advice,I'm gonna order 2 qts this week and when it comes in I'll document and photo the er,.. ah,.. procedure,....

PS RH my problem has been downshifting into the lower gears 1,2 and finding neutral. Going up hasn't been a problem if I remember correctly,....

[guzzi jon]

I had a bike that I suspected had sludge/swarf in the trans. I drained the trans oil, then sloshed mineral spirits about and let it drain, then I did it again.... got all the shit out and spent 5 minutes..... Let it dry overnight and add your oil. If you're truly paranoid, rinse the sucker out, why pull it to bits to get a bit of grunge out of the trans... I had reason to suspect the stuff, but in my bikes, drain and and refill.... only worked for 35 years

[dlaing]

How did I get dragged into this?,I just asked a question.If I was anymore relaxed my eyes would be closed!!

Who needs television when youv'e got this forum?It's like reading a Young One's episode,friggin looney bin it is ,...Ha,Ha

 

Thanks for all the advice,I'm gonna order 2 qts this week and when it comes in I'll document and photo the er,.. ah,.. procedure,....

PS RH my problem has been downshifting into the lower gears 1,2 and finding neutral. Going up hasn't been a problem if I remember correctly,....

Failure to shift correctly in only one of the directions may indicate a need to adjust the adjuster under the acorn nut on the left side.

Attempting to adjust it can open up a can of worms in that if you are not careful and patient, you can make things worse.

The first thing to realize is that on the other side of the screw is a lobed cam and that turning it 360 degrees will ESSENTIALLY get you to the same setting. I say essentially, because it is possible for it to go too many turns in or out.

The simple and sure way to set it is to remove the acorn cap nut, mark the current screw position, unlock the lock nut and turn it either clockwise or counter clockwise just an eighth of a turn, lock the nut, test ride. If better, congratulate yourself. If worse, go back to the mark and then an eighth turn the other way. Narrow it down with small eighth or sixteenth turn adjustments, so that the screw position results in the best possible shifting. Put the acorn nut back on, and change the gear oil.

Or just change the gear oil and that may be enough???

Personally I keep using ShockProof because I think it is the best gear oil I have tried and Ratchet directed me to a place that sells it for under $10 a quart or liter, and it is local, so I don't have to pay for shipping.

The alternative is to get a quality gear oil and add a molybdenum gear oil additive.

To maintain ideal shifting, I just change it about once a year. When I start mis-shifting and the fault is not completely me, I change the gear oil.

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .RH my problem has been downshifting into the lower gears 1,2 and finding neutral. Going up hasn't been a problem if I remember correctly,....

If the linkage has begun to work itself loose as mentioned above, the fault can appear shifting in either direction. Left uncorrected, it will eventually show up in both.

 

Have you checked it yet?

 

Per my post above, it's a 10 sec investment of time that's conclusive, and can save considerable unanticipated grief, money and time, as was demonstrated in a thread here not long ago.

[richard100t]

When my bike was having trouble getting into the first two gears I took the cover off and found the washer from the speedo cable against the magnet. I thought that may have been the problem but after closely looking at the shifting mechanism I determined that the upper gear that has the shifting pin catches had gotten off track somehow.

I took the whole thing apart & reassembled it until it worked smoothly & I've never had any problems with it since. I think that old washer probably fell right down to the magnet & had been lying there for about two years so it wasnt the cause of the problem at all. I'm thinking it was more likely I shifted too hard or missed a shift & it jumped track a little.

Anyway what you describe sounds like the problems I was having. Take the cover off & try to turn the gears by hand. If they dont turn easily BOTH WAYS you can bet that its the same problem I had.

[Dan M]

Failure to shift correctly in only one of the directions may indicate a need to adjust the adjuster under the acorn nut on the left side.

Attempting to adjust it can open up a can of worms in that if you are not careful and patient, you can make things worse.

The first thing to realize is that on the other side of the screw is a lobed cam and that turning it 360 degrees will ESSENTIALLY get you to the same setting. I say essentially, because it is possible for it to go too many turns in or out.

The simple and sure way to set it is to remove the acorn cap nut, mark the current screw position, unlock the lock nut and turn it either clockwise or counter clockwise just an eighth of a turn, lock the nut, test ride. If better, congratulate yourself. If worse, go back to the mark and then an eighth turn the other way. Narrow it down with small eighth or sixteenth turn adjustments, so that the screw position results in the best possible shifting. Put the acorn nut back on, and change the gear oil.

 

Now it is getting complicated. The adjuster under the acorn should be fine if: A) it shifted OK before and, you have not screwed around with it. Unless it is loose it can't "go out of adjustment" I wouldn't start messing with adjustments if all was working properly before.

Clean, slick lube works wonders inside and tight well lubed linkage does the job outside.

Cover that first. If it is not fixed, then start with other stuff. You don't want to create a problem.

[mznyc]

Haven't gotten into it yet,outa town.I'll probably wait till I get the RL fluid.

thanks again for all the info

[dlaing]

Now it is getting complicated. The adjuster under the acorn should be fine if: A) it shifted OK before and, you have not screwed around with it. Unless it is loose it can't "go out of adjustment" I wouldn't start messing with adjustments if all was working properly before.

Clean, slick lube works wonders inside and tight well lubed linkage does the job outside.

Cover that first. If it is not fixed, then start with other stuff. You don't want to create a problem.

I'll agree that you should check the other things first, but avoid Slick 50 Gear Lube® (probably not what Dan meant, but just making sure)

The linkage shouldn't go out of adjustment either, but the angles can be set wrong from the factory or previous owner, which combined with dirty lube and or the adjuster under the acorn less than perfect can lead to bad shifting.

The adjuster under the acorn was off for me, but I had had the gear box recall, so it may have happened then.

Ideally the linkage should be set to about 90 degree angles at the articulations, and check to make sure the shift does not bind against anything.

Does anybody have a recommendation for linkage lube?

I know Ratchet will frown on WD40. Marine grease is probably too thick. Chain wax is probably too thick. Anything thinner might not stay on long. Running dry will avoid stiction from dirt mixed with lube, but has inherit friction and will increase wear.

I think we need 20 pages on the ideal linkage lube

[grossohc]

I think we need 20 pages on the ideal linkage lube

 

[Dan M]

, but avoid Slick 50 Gear Lube® (probably not what Dan meant, but just making sure)

 

Does anybody have a recommendation for linkage lube?

I know Ratchet will frown on WD40. Marine grease is probably too thick. Chain wax is probably too thick. Anything thinner might not stay on long. Running dry will avoid stiction from dirt mixed with lube, but has inherit friction and will increase wear.

I think we need 20 pages on the ideal linkage lube

 

 

Right, I'm not a fan of any Slick 50 product. Didn't know it was still on the market.

 

Good old white lithium grease works well for linkage.

[gstallons]

I judge a mechanic on his opinion of Slick 50.