Leak - Oil? Tranmission?

[df2]

Hi guys, well I am sad to say I have some kind of leak, first noticed about a week ago with very small drips, now leaves a softball sized spot. I originally thought it was the seal around the pan but it's coming from up higher and dripping down.

 

The first drips are running down the back of the engine and onto the belly pan, then I also have a drip that runs down the back along the frame and drips directly onto the crossover of the pipes.

 

The first drips are dark like old oil the ones on the crossover are cleaner.

 

I don't know what the difference in smell is between fluids, anyone care to give that a try? Don't ask me to taste it ;-)

the cleaner fluid is not as red as I would expect transmission fluids to be.

 

Anyway I've been reading horror stories on here so far and my least fear is the breather hose, my worst a cracked transmission.. or both.

 

PS. there was no leak before two things happened. 1. Had the oil changed at dealer because they said "want us to change the oil while we're at it"

and 2. I cleaned the engine with SP100

 

Leaks mostly just following a ride (which makes sense). Then barely anything after everything cools down.

 

I guess what I'm hoping for is where to look, pictures or detailed descriptions are best as I wont' likely know where seal x or rod y is.

 

One day I hope to know what I'm doing, which is why I probably keep gravitating towards bikes that need constant tinkering. Glutton for punishment I guess.

 

David

[Guest ratchethack]

David, looks like you've done your Forum homework and found the right threads. A softball sized puddle is a bit of a territory marker, ain't it? There's no reason for concern about a cracked gearbox case unless you've been lofting the front wheel or it's been in a crash. When my breather hose started to leak, it was at the aft end, just above the engine case. Oil would gradually work its way down behind the left cylinder when left on the side stand after a ride. I replaced the hose before it really let go.

 

You should be able to tell the difference between crankcase oil and gearbox oil. When in doubt, have a look, feel, and smell of each right from the source so you know the difference. Then if the look, feel, and smell still isn't conclusive, you can carefully degrease the cases and put baby powder over the area, run it up to operating temp, and have a look see. The source will be pretty obvious at that point.

 

Good luck!

[df2]

Problem is I have reason now for concern over what this bike has been through. Bike was sold through max BMW as a personal bike of a salesman. Who never titled it and says it was actually someone elses. This someone else raced Mototards for Max Bmw so how he treated his street bikes is of concern. Also one porkchop is different from the other (almost pink) while the other looks brand new, makes me wonder if the bike had been down. There was a mark on the left side under the seat and I asked if the bike had ever been down and the "owner" said no. I guess I took a leap of faith with an internet purchase.

 

But then again I'm pretty much a conspiracy theorist so I always expect the worst.

 

Anyway, thanks. I was planning on taking those next steps with another cleaning and then I heard spraying the motor with Arid Extra Dry Powered aeresol does a good job of finding leaks.

I also figured on pulling the tank (I hate doing this as my connie always leaked from the petcock) to get a better look at the breather.

 

Thanks for the luck.

 

David

[Guest ratchethack]

For the owner of a red frame Sport, there's nothing quite like the sheer horror of pink pork chops.

 

The sun will do it every time -- eventually. Sounds just like it was parked in an employee parking lot in the same orientation to the sun, probably for years.

 

With considerable elbow grease, the pink oxidation can be rubbed out and the original deep finish will return. A Pal of mine gave up (after about a minute of rubbing, I think) and had his off for powder coating. To each his own.

[gstallons]

Problem is I have reason now for concern over what this bike has been through. Bike was sold through max BMW as a personal bike of a salesman. Who never titled it and says it was actually someone elses. This someone else raced Mototards for Max Bmw so how he treated his street bikes is of concern. Also one porkchop is different from the other (almost pink) while the other looks brand new, makes me wonder if the bike had been down. There was a mark on the left side under the seat and I asked if the bike had ever been down and the "owner" said no. I guess I took a leap of faith with an internet purchase.

 

But then again I'm pretty much a conspiracy theorist so I always expect the worst.

 

Anyway, thanks. I was planning on taking those next steps with another cleaning and then I heard spraying the motor with Arid Extra Dry Powered aeresol does a good job of finding leaks.

I also figured on pulling the tank (I hate doing this as my connie always leaked from the petcock) to get a better look at the breather.

 

Thanks for the luck.

Do you have access to oil dye and light specifically made to find oil leaks? I use this method to find ALL fluid leaks.

David

[Guest ratchethack]

Say David

 

This look familiar?

 

[df2]

Say David

 

This look familiar?

 

 

That's exactly what it looks like. Even same side. Looks like I've got some rubbing to do.

 

PS. Well did the sniff test and it doesn't smell like oil. The oil has the typical oil smell and much stronger, what's leaking has almost no smell (uless it's burning off the pipes).

[gstallons]

Sorry my response didn't show up.

Do you have access to dye and a light made for finding oil leaks. It takes ALL the guesswork out of play.You can put it in the engine or gearbox and run it for a few days.Check it late in the afternoon for less sunlight and best results. If it shows up leaking with no dye,you know it was the part you did not install the dye into.

Hope this helps,

gene

[df2]

Sorry my response didn't show up.

Do you have access to dye and a light made for finding oil leaks. It takes ALL the guesswork out of play.You can put it in the engine or gearbox and run it for a few days.Check it late in the afternoon for less sunlight and best results. If it shows up leaking with no dye,you know it was the part you did not install the dye into.

Hope this helps,

gene

 

 

No, unfortunately I do not but if I can get a hold of some it may be worth it. Is it readily available? I absolutely hate leaks of any kind with an engine. It Irks me to the core. It shouldn't as owning classics usually means leaks of every kind and most just manage them, but I hate it. My father in law has "diapers" (read cardboard) under all his cars and bikes.

 

Can you get the dye in different colors. The way I am if it didn't show up I'd just wonder if something else was wrong. I'd prefer being able to diagnose both at the same time.

[Guest ratchethack]

PS. Well did the sniff test and it doesn't smell like oil. The oil has the typical oil smell and much stronger, what's leaking has almost no smell (uless it's burning off the pipes).

Hm. The only alternative to oil that could be coming from the bike at the back of the gearbox is brake fluid from the clutch slave cylinder. Is the clutch reservoir at the handlebar down on fluid? You can wipe some of what's on the floor on a white sheet of paper to determine what color it is, if any. Brake fluid will zip through paint everywhere it goes. You want to get it off ASAP. Again checking the easiest stuff first, you might want to check the hydraulic line fitting and bleed nipple at the top of the slave cylinder. It's the round casting at the back of the gearbox with Grimeca cast into it. If the leak is internal to the slave cylinder, the good news in your case is that it can be easily removed for rebuilding with new seals by taking off the 3 peripheral socket head mounting bolts -- without dismantling the bike, due to the fact that your 2000 Sport lacks a diagonal chassis bracing tube that blocks access on other models.

 

Hope this helps.

[df2]

Hm. The only alternative to oil that could be coming from the bike at the back of the gearbox is brake fluid from the clutch. Is the clutch reservoir at the handlebar down on fluid? You can wipe some of what's on the floor on a white sheet of paper to determine what color it is, if any. Brake fluid will zip through paint everywhere it goes. You want to get it off ASAP. Again checking the easiest stuff first, you might want to check the hydraulic line fitting and bleed nipple at the top of the slave cylinder. It's the round, black casting at the back of the gearbox with Grimeca cast into it. If the leak is internal to the slave cylinder, the good news in your case is that it can be easily removed for rebuilding with new seals by taking off the 3 peripheral socket head mounting bolts -- without dismantling the bike, due to the fact that your 2000 Sport lacks a diagonal chassis bracing tube that blocks access on other models.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

Always good to have options :-( No, this is very helpful and informative.

I don't have the bike with me today as I drove the cage to work.

 

Okay, forgive my ignorance.... "Brake fluid from the clutch" ?? The brakes obviously are hydrolic, and I believe the clutch is also, right. Is the clutch using brake fluid? I'm confused. (it's not your explanation, trust me it's me, I confuse easily).

 

I will give the slave cylinder a good look when I get home.

 

I really appreciate the help!

[Guest ratchethack]

"Brake fluid from the clutch" ?? The brakes obviously are hydrolic, and I believe the clutch is also, right. Is the clutch using brake fluid? I'm confused.

David, hydraulic clutches use brake fluid, usually the same grade as the brakes. Guzzi spec's DOT4 brake fluid for both. Because the stuff is very powerfully hygroscopic, it needs to be changed out and bled semi-regularly (depending on climate), or it will become corrosive and eat seals (and destroy expensive metallic components as well) in both slave and master cylinders, amongst doing other bad bad stuff -- like creating gas bubbles in the fluid when heated, causing erratic operation. The obvious clue to brake fluid that's "gone bad" is at the brake and clutch reservoirs at the respective master cylinders on the bars that has turned dark in color. The darkness is evidence of dissolved seal material in suspension in the fluid. You can substantially extend the operating life of seals and other components by sticking to the maint. schedule. Many threads on this can be found with a search.

 

Hope this helps.

[Dan M]

Always good to have options :-( No, this is very helpful and informative.

I don't have the bike with me today as I drove the cage to work.

 

Okay, forgive my ignorance.... "Brake fluid from the clutch" ?? The brakes obviously are hydrolic, and I believe the clutch is also, right. Is the clutch using brake fluid? I'm confused. (it's not your explanation, trust me it's me, I confuse easily).

 

I will give the slave cylinder a good look when I get home.

 

I really appreciate the help!

 

Yes, that clutch uses brake fluid. I doubt that is your leak. The total capacity can't leave puddles that size more than about once. You would have other symptoms too like no clutch disengagement. It is likely motor oil. Petroleum gear lube has a stronger odor than motor oil. Synthetic is usually red.

Your first approach of clean and look is best.

[gstallons]

No, unfortunately I do not but if I can get a hold of some it may be worth it. Is it readily available? I absolutely hate leaks of any kind with an engine. It Irks me to the core. It shouldn't as owning classics usually means leaks of every kind and most just manage them, but I hate it. My father in law has "diapers" (read cardboard) under all his cars and bikes.

 

Can you get the dye in different colors. The way I am if it didn't show up I'd just wonder if something else was wrong. I'd prefer being able to diagnose both at the same time.

 

Go hang around some independent(who works on your car?) auto garage and ask if they will help. The dye is around $10.00 and you will not use 1/4 of the bottle in EITHER the crankcase or transmission.

[jrt]

You're describing too much of a leak for it to be brake or clutch hydraulic fluid.

My guess is also that it is oil, but I confess that I make this internet prognostication based solely on your two statements that it started after the dealer changed the oil and it only leaks when you ride it. My guess is that it is probably just blow-by and not a big deal- other than the mess. Still, you should check it out.

If this is the case, then one of the oil return lines is the most likely (but not the only) culprit. Can you take the tank off? It lifts right off if you are lucky. There are two fuel vapor recovery hoses under the tank which are a pain- block up the back of the tank with a 2X4 and then you can reach under and get them. Disconnect the petcock electrical connector too.

Inspect the big oil return line that runs down from the frame. Also check the breather tube that is on top of the frame. There are a couple other, smaller breather tubes that end up down at the starter. Trace them back and make sure they are in good shape. If the bike was parked outside and got sun damage, it wouldn't surprise me if the rubber vent tubes are not in good shape either. They weren't very high quality to begin with.

 

Oh- even simpler- check the oil level. Is it over-filled? That will surely give you the symptoms you describe.

Is it way low? Then you probably have an engine oil leak.