Fuel starvation at speed

[docc]

After fitting a manual petcock to my Sport (thanks to TXRedneck, remember him?), I found it quite hard and very awkward to wind the thing all the way open or closed. It takes a lot of 1/8 turns.

 

I've run dry on fuel too many embarrassing times. Getting off and deeply leaning the bike left and making several *slosh* maneuvers has always gotten a bit of the fuel trapped on the right side of the tank over to the petcock side for a shot further down the road. Early sports trap about 0.8 US gallon. I'm not sure this really changed when the pump moved inside the tank in 2003.

 

It's an awkward, strenuous maneuver and could be hard to describe to your Chiropractor!

[guzzidude1100i]

Can someone tell me if it is possible to remove the injectors (to be cleaned) without removing the throttle bodies? I can not find the procedure for removing the injectors, I was told there is a plastic band covering a clip that holds the injector in place. That is not much to go on, any help or photos anyone might have would be much appreciated.

[Kiwi_Roy]

External pump VIIs

I have often though it would be a good idea to somehow pipe the return line over to the left hand side, it's kind of silly to have a reserve of gas on the right and not be able to use it. You can stop and lean the bike over to transfer it to the left but the pump will immediately throw it back again at 26 gallons per hour.

 

Has anyone come up with a solution for this?

 

Perhaps swap the fuel return nozzle with the fuel level one.?

 

Return it to the pump suction?

 

Small pump tank with a gravity feed from the main tank?

 

BTW, I think the electric petcock is the greatest thing since sliced bread LOL

[Lucky Phil]

External pump VIIs

I have often though it would be a good idea to somehow pipe the return line over to the left hand side, it's kind of silly to have a reserve of gas on the right and not be able to use it. You can stop and lean the bike over to transfer it to the left but the pump will immediately throw it back again at 26 gallons per hour.

 

Has anyone come up with a solution for this?

 

Perhaps swap the fuel return nozzle with the fuel level one.?

 

Return it to the pump suction?

 

Small pump tank with a gravity feed from the main tank?

 

BTW, I think the electric petcock is the greatest thing since sliced bread LOL

Yes thought of this a few years ago after running out of petrol a few times but its just to hard with the current plumbing set up and the external pump engines have far to much fuel plumbing externally as it is.

The electric petcock is a stupid idea and only there for US regulations that insist that the fuel system has an automatic shutoff of some sort in case the tank is torn off the bike in an accident you wont have fuel spilling everywhere.

I have fitted a manual petcock ( as many of you law breakers have) an it stays in the open position at all times, never touch it, why would you bother.

 

Ciao

[Kiwi_Roy]

Phill,

         Why do you think the petcock is stupid?

I have had 3, they always worked.

Granted they don't need to turn off

I have heard the wires snap off but that's easily avoidable with a ty-wrap

I guess I have no good reason for retaining the petcock but it's a nice bit of bling.

It's electric, I like all things electric LOL

 

Perhaps we can brainstorm up a good way to modify the plumbing, the RH side could act like a reserve

[Lucky Phil]

Phill,

         Why do you think the petcock is stupid?

I have had 3, they always worked.

Granted they don't need to turn off

I have heard the wires snap off but that's easily avoidable with a ty-wrap

I guess I have no good reason for retaining the petcock but it's a nice bit of bling.

It's electric, I like all things electric LOL

 

Perhaps we can brainstorm up a good way to modify the plumbing, the RH side could act like a reserve

Only because Roy, its a little bulky and also just one more thing that can fail and if it does its a show stopper.

I spent quite a bit of time looking at the old style tank ( I have a couple of spares) and trying to dream up a solution to the hiding fuel in the r/h side but the tank fittings are so compact and the area around them so tight that I put it in the too hard basket. Maybe you could run a syphon hose over the tank hump internally but you would need to locate it and prime it initially and if you ever ran out of fuel.

I like the internal pump system because it keeps the external plumbing way tidier and neater.

 

Ciao

[docc]

Can someone tell me if it is possible to remove the injectors (to be cleaned) without removing the throttle bodies? I can not find the procedure for removing the injectors, I was told there is a plastic band covering a clip that holds the injector in place. That is not much to go on, any help or photos anyone might have would be much appreciated.

Looks we've mixed a couple topics here. The issue of V11 (especially early) tanks trapping almost a gallon of fuel in the right "pannier" remains a frustration.

 

But this thread got resurrected by guzzidude1100i (Welcome back, man! sorry your first registration got lost in a rare *server migration* )

 

Now, maybe we need a separate thread to consider your injector cleaning question (they're difficult to remove). But, why the concern about cleaning the injectors?

[Kiwi_Roy]

 

  

I like the internal pump system because it keeps the external plumbing way tidier and neater.

 

Ciao

 

I looked at it once, it seemed to me adding an internal pipe from the regulator nozzle to send the gas over the hump would be the way to go, it would look the same from outside. I don't know how you would anchor it though, perhaps to the filler.

I agree the in tank pump is a much better solution, you can use a reed switch and float to alarm low level instead of the thermistor.

 

I still think one of us should be able to come up with a good solution.

[Lucky Phil]

 

 

  

I like the internal pump system because it keeps the external plumbing way tidier and neater.

 

Ciao

 

I looked at it once, it seemed to me adding an internal pipe from the regulator nozzle to send the gas over the hump would be the way to go, 

 

It woudnt solve the issue Roy as when you filled the tank you would still have unuseable fel in the right side.

 

Ciao

[bbolesaz]

For external pump systems, why wouldn't the return be T-ed into the line between the tank and pump?  Does the electric petcock have a 1-way valve?

[GuzziMoto]

For external pump systems, why wouldn't the return be T-ed into the line between the tank and pump?  Does the electric petcock have a 1-way valve?

You could T the return into the supply. You could connect the two sides of the external pump, the intake and the return, to the two sides of the line connecting the two sides of the tank. But you would have to re-do the fuel pressure regulator, perhaps adding a new one in the line where it T's back to the line connecting the two sides.

I have not had an issue where I needed that last little bit of fuel, but I see no reason why you could not connect it so that the pump can pull from both sides of the tank. But the regulator would still need to be able to regulate fuel pressure at the injectors.

[bbolesaz]

Thought about this a little more and realized that the problem is that the tank head pressure would probably screw with the fuel regulator.  I assume the return line is vented to the air gap in the tank which would avoid having the head pressure change with fuel level.  And if that is true, the return line cannot source fuel anyhow.

[Lucky Phil]

For external pump systems, why wouldn't the return be T-ed into the line between the tank and pump?  Does the electric petcock have a 1-way valve?

This MAY work but will add extra plumbing and complexity to an already messy area of the bike. So a balance pipe between the sides of the tank with the return plummed into it and some sort of mount arrangement for the regulator. Also you will be recirculating a proportion of heated fuel which may or may not be a problem in hot climates in traffic. Early Ducati 851's suffered from vapourisation issues in hot traffic until they revised the return plumbing  layout. The issue is not whether it can be done its about doing it in an elegant way. Having plumbing running everwhere with additional possible external leakage points is not acceptable to me. I spent quite a while a few years back thinking this issue through and looking at the physical issues and decided it wasnt worth the effort. Big problems are the original tank fittings are very compact and the internal access in the old tanks is very difficult, so any internal mods or possible connection points for modified fittings is very very difficult.

No one way valve fitted in the petcock. 

 

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

Thought about this a little more and realized that the problem is that the tank head pressure would probably screw with the fuel regulator.  I assume the return line is vented to the air gap in the tank which would avoid having the head pressure change with fuel level.  And if that is true, the return line cannot source fuel anyhow.

No this isnt the case, it just dumps back into the bottom of the tank. The head pressure even with a full tank would be very small. From memory 1 ft of water is around 0.4psi and fuel has a lower SG than water.

 

Ciao