Could it be immobiliser problem?

[belfastguzzi]

I've said before about my Griso non-starting problem.

Sometimes when trying to start the bike, it simply does nothing. I have to wait, keep trying and at some point it comes to life.

 

Today, after riding for two hours I stopped the bike. A few minutes later I turned the key and pressed the start button. Nothing I kept trying and after a while it started. Stopping for a while and then attempting to start – nothing.

I've waited and waited, tried and tried, but it is still silent and lifeless.

 

I'm wondering if this fault could be attributable to the immobiliser system?

 

Pete, or anyone who knows the error codes / management system: Will a faulty immobiliser display an error code?

 

Edit: I have found reference to immobiliser error codes in the Service Manual.

Now to go see if any are displayed.

[belfastguzzi]

The ECU errors have one check column called Active.

There are two check columns for Dashboard Errors.

One is Active and the other is Memo.

What, why?

Presumably Memo is for 'old' errors.

 

There were 4 codes marked with an x in the Dashboard errors, Memo column:

01 and 02 which are both immobiliser failures

07 which is oil sensor failure and

08 which is oil pressure anomaly.

 

(Sometimes the little red warning triangle flashes on, when the bike is on the road – could that be the oil pressure anomalies?)

 

I cleared the errors, exited and pressed the starter.

Engine fired up. Coincidence?

I stopped and tried again.

No start.

Error display shows an x against 02.

I cleared the errors again, exited and tried to start.

 

It won't start.

No errors are displaying.

[raz]

Do you have a bunch of keys bundled to it? A friend of mine got immobiliser problems (with a car) that was solved by not having a sh!tload of other keys on the same keyring. Besides, the weight is not healthy for the ignition lock.

 

Do you have another key to try?

[belfastguzzi]

Do you have a bunch of keys bundled to it? A friend of mine got immobiliser problems (with a car) that was solved by not having a sh!tload of other keys on the same keyring. Besides, the weight is not healthy for the ignition lock.

 

Do you have another key to try?

Thanks, but no other keys attached and 2nd key is no better.

[pete roper]

Awww! Shit. Is it STILL causing you grief??? Haven't they fixed the leak yet??? Jesus!

 

OK. First the leak. I did the cam recall on my bike and did NOT replace the head and base gaskets. I was REALLY careful though that when the cam boxes came off that a.) I had the piston at TDC and b.) I didn't move the crank at all or knock the heads and/or barrels while they were 'Unsecured'. Now not moving anything is unfortunately not listed in the instructions but I would of thought it was pretty obvious that on something with incompressible steel head and bas gaskets that any sort of disturbance is going to be bad news and be asking for the possibility of a leak to develop. Talking to another shop owner in Bega he said that when they had the importers Stelvio demonstrator down for test rides it started leaking and they got up the bloke who had done the replacement for not replacing the gaskets. It is my belief that as long as you are super careful it SHOULDN'T be neccessary, but if one does fail then the only answer is going to be to replace both head and base gaskets. Now while the top end of the 8V is a bit more complicated it really ISN'T a huge job. I know you've had issues with the 'official' bloke near you but surely there must be SOMONE around who has half a clue?

 

Now the immobilizer issue? The thing is the dash won't allow the bike to start if it doesn't recognise the key. In the switch there is an inductive coil that will create an EMF that is sufficient for the microchip in the key to be recognised by the switch and this will send a message to the dash telling it to start. That's my understanding anyway. So there arethree potential problem areas.

 

1.) The key. Unlikely as neither key works.

 

2.) The switch may have a faulty inductive coil but you'd expect it to either work or not, not to give an intermittent signal.

 

3.) The dashboard. Now this would seem to me to be the most likely suspect and if it was in my workshop I'd slap in a warranty claim for a new dash. If that failed I'd slap in a warranty claim for a new lock set.

 

What I can't understand is why your man hasn't simply submitted a warranty claim for the dash? You do it on-line, it takes only a few minutes and it isn't like a failed bearing or something where they can demand that you submit pictures as there is nothing to see. It's throwing up erroor codes for the dash! Piss it off and get a new one! The only way we're going to get Piaggio to start buying better equipment is to make using the cheap shit they use now counter-productive and uneconomical!

 

Now I DO have a spare Griso dashboard, it's off an 850 and seems to have a different part # to the one for the 8V. I can't for the life of me see why they would need a different dash though? Perhaps Todd, Mike or Greg might have some ideas?

 

Thing is that if you want I can send it to you and you could try it and see if it makes the problem go away. You'd probably need to do the 'Code Recovery' thing though as I haven't a clue what its user code is and I don't know if that is *Stored* in the dash or in the ignition switch but I'd guess the dash.

 

I find this all incredibly frustrating. I think the 8V is a superb bike. All the ones I've heard of that are giving problems have a history of being #@$&@#@ about with by idiots who don't know what they're doing and are too proud to ask for help. It shits me to tears!

 

Oh, and finally the oil pressure things. The sender fault may well be genuine, as you know the senders are crap. The pressure fault is probably down to whoever serviced it not filling the filter before it was put on or only partially filling it. Even if it is filled completely though they sometimes chuck up a low pressure error though as it takes a few fractions of seconds to prime the system up after an oil change. If it goes away when the errors are cleared that is almost certainly it.

 

Pete

 

PS. Did a cross-check. Dashes are the same 8V number superceeds earlier one.

[luhbo]

Make sure that every connector between key and dashboard is in perfect condition. As with so much electronics nowadays you have only high or low on most of the pins but no real current, the connectors should all be gold plated. That's a must in automotive business. Bikes very often are leisure business, so the pins are kept cheap. Guzzi might also use the chep connectors.

A friend of me had similar problems with his Stelvio. Maybe that the system is the same. Now he keeps the dashboard connector packed under a piece of plastic "zakje" and it works better.

 

Hubert

[belfastguzzi]

Thanks

 

I'll check those connectors. I'd say that the Griso and Stelvio systems are exactly the same.

I have had a new dash ordered (ages ago) on Warranty, due to the condensation problem that makes the bottom half of the display unreadable when it is misted. I just haven't got it yet. Thanks for the offer though, Pete.

 

I've asked Piaggio if an independent service centre can be allowed to do MG warranty work. I can guess the answer but we'll see.

 

The oil pressure (possible) explanation is reassuring.

[pete roper]

Dunno if you checked on the Illuminati board Dave but apparently Mike is going through the same shit at MPH with a Breva at the moment. Dash replaced with no success so next stop is the ignition lock antenna as that is next in line. Needless to say this isn't available as a separate part! As Todd says there is ZERO information in the manuals about the system so troubleshooting is hard.

 

pete

[Greg Field]

All of these Piaggio POSes will be rendered toss-aways by this crap technology within 10 years. Shit, if a satellite passes over your position they fart and pop every time unless you have applied a layer of tinfoil inside your helmet. Why would anyone steal one?

[luhbo]

Hey, I've watched this "Summer's Last Evening" video you made. It looks as if the bike is moving. So, what was the problem/solution then?

 

Hubert

[belfastguzzi]

Hey, I've watched this "Summer's Last Evening" video you made. It looks as if the bike is moving. So, what was the problem/solution then?

 

Hubert

 

It comes and goes. Sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. The MG dealer/agent says that the problem will be bad connections at the fuses. We'll see! <_>

[Orson]

Hey, I've watched this "Summer's Last Evening" video you made. It looks as if the bike is moving. So, what was the problem/solution then?

 

Hubert

maybe 2 different people are logging on under the same account

[belfastguzzi]

maybe 2 different people are logging on under the same account

:lol:

[pete roper]

I have to say that from what you have told me your service agent isn't exactly 'On the Ball'. Has he actually plugged the diagnostics in yet or is this more of the "30 weight oil and none of this modern nonsense" shit.

 

As for being throw away in ten years? Greg, I'll betcha I can keep mine going, and if that is 'cos the wreckers are full of deaders so much the better!!!!! :-)

 

Pete

[Greg Field]

Have I mentioned yet that yak fat is toxic to imobilizers?