Q: Who “Needs” a Steering Damper?

[GuzziMoto]

Canting out the triples to get more rake is a horrible idea.

Glad the wifes V11 does not have such issues.

A GSXR front end will be shorter which means steeper rake, but it will also have substantially less offset which means more trail. The extra trail should help offset the steeper rake.

As I have mentioned before, you can by extended forl caps for some GSXR front forks. I did not use them on my Daytona (I did not realize they only make them for some GSXR forks) and the steeper rake coupled with the increase in trail worked out really well. The bike steers excellent and does not need (or have) a steering damper. That is not to say that my Daytona is the same as your V11, but it may work out fine, still. I would try it and see.

[sp838]

I was under the impression that shortening the offset would also shorten the trail... Is it really the other way around?

 

EDIT: just looked at some diagrams and it makes sense now. I see that trail is measured between steering axis and the wheel contact patch perpendicular to the axle. By shortening offset, that patch moves back towards the bike, away from the steering axis, thereby lengthening trail. Thanks GuzziMoto!

 

I will get numbers and specs. from my bike's stock setup and post this afternoon.

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

Canting out the triples to get more rake is a horrible idea.

 

 

A GSXR front end will be shorter which means steeper rake, but it will also have substantially less offset which means more trail. The extra trail should help offset the steeper rake.

 

 

Canting "in" the front forks will achieve the same effect as the shorter GSXR forks (or having less offset as in sp838's EDIT) I would really like to know if that is what Greg Field meant about the "canted" triple clamps.

[GuzziMoto]

I am not sure what he meant. It would be easy enough for someone with a set of those forks to measure them.

To me, I do not want my forks canted out OR canted in. Doing either is wrong. The forks should be parallel to the steering axis. Otherwise it becomes less like a motor bike and more like one of the shopping carts with the wobbly wheel.

Proper rake and trail is easy enough to achieve with no need for stupid shit like raking out or raking in the clamps.

 

The shorter GSXR forks is a good/bad scenario. The shorter forks increase rake, which would normally decrease trail and decrease stability. But the decrease in offset adds trail back which counters the steeper rake and also allows the increased weight on the front to help. As long as you maintain enough trail I think overall the GSXR fork is a positive step. 

[docc]

Field was adamant that the later triple clamps (of the early Sport series) were "bored off axis" one half degree. While this would effectively increase rake (slightly) and decrease trail (slightly), he made no mention of changes to offset (the distance the center of the forks is set ahead of the center of the steering stem).

 

From the engineering drawings and a couple preliminary measurements, it appears the canted/off-axis clamps may have also increased offset around 5mm which would negate the change in trail or maybe even increase trail.

 

Perhaps a few of you would be willing to post your year model/approx serial number, upper clamp part number, axle nut or none, and measure the offset.

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

I would very much like to get some measurements but I will have to wait for a space on my motorcycle lift to get that kind of information. That might take a few weeks ....

 

One proof may be measuring the wheelbase .... if the forks are canted or raked in ... or out .... then the wheelbase would be slightly different from the original red frames with the original triple clamps. That's where I would look for differences first.

[docc]

I tried measuring my wheelbase and it's a . . . er, well: difficult. The factory measurements are also in the "loaded" state, whatever variables that might entail.

 

Jim, do you have any published wheelbase specification for the Rosso Mandello? Or even a castor (rake) spec? I can't find anything.

[sp838]

Hey guys, so I checked my bike's clamp and the only number I could find on it so far is: "13 00" This is in black numerals on the underside of the bottom clamp. In the coming weeks (waiting to get my fork legs back) I will be removing the whole front end, so I can possibly have more info on the clamps. I can tell you that my top clamp does not seem to be the original one, it has holes in it for handle bar risers, as the previous owner removed the clip ons and put Renthal bars on. The clamp and risers are Moto Guzzi, they have the MG Falcon logo on the plate that holds them together.

 

My bike's manufacture date is sort of puzzling me: on the frame ID it says manufacture date 07 2000, but my title says the bike is a 2001. My vin number is ZGU KR AK R2 1 M 113455. Apparently one of those letters/numbers is a code for the year it was made, I haven't tried to decipher it yet, if anyone knows how to read these codes I'd love to know if in fact my bike is a '00 or an '01.

 

When I got the bike I downloaded a workshop manual for the '01 model, thinking that was my model year. I was mistaken when I said the rake was shown as being 26º, I didn't zoom in far enough on the PDF. It says in fact 25º. The "print" date on this manual is 03/01.

 

I hope this helps!

[Tom M]

sp838,

 

Are the handlebar riser mounting holes in your top clamp counterbored on the top side? (Larger diameter hole with flat bottom bored partially through the clamp)  If so you may not have an original top clamp.  If not the previous owner probably drilled the stock top clamp himself for the handlebar risers.

 

Date of manufacture and model years often don't match on bikes or cars.  Lots of model year 2014 vehicles are built in late 2013.

 

Here's Todd Haven's VIN decoder from way back when...

 

Z is for Italy
GU is for Guzzi
KRAKR designates 1100 spine frame 2000-2002(sport and Lemans)
9th digit is undefined
10th digit is model year(or production)
W-98, X=99,Y=2000,1=2001,2=2002
11-16th digits are identifying serial number for your specific bike.

[docc]

Check out Post# 295 in this thread for the location of the part number on the upper clamp (upper fork plate or top triple tree/triple clamp).

 

Thanks for the clarification on the rake!

 

EDIT:
I see it better to be more careful with the word "clamp" as any with handlebars have a "clamp" that fastens them to the upper fork plate (which is often called the top triple clamp or top triple tree).

[sp838]

TomM - I removed the risers at one point to take some measurements. The holes are smooth and the same diameter all the way through, they are 20mm wide and 110mm between centers. There are rubber grommets inside them, with a metal shaft inside those. The risers have what appear to be M10 bolts going through with a flanged nut underneath.

[sp838]

Hey Docc, don't know if you saw this already in the front end swap thread, but I now have more info on my top clamp, and will have more on the bottom clamp soon. It turns out that my bike has been even more molested than I previously thought. I knew the front end had been rebuilt by the PO, what I didn't know is that he used the triple clamps off a Sport 1100IE. That would explain why my offset is different from what is in the manual for the v11, and why I have real holes for the handle bar risers as opposed to drilled holes:

 

[docc]

That is one of the "early" triple clamp numbers listed by Field in a previous post:

 

["Does it read "0149 3100" or "0149 3130" (both early) or "501452" (most late)?"]

 

Not sure the difference in the xxxx3130 clamp expect that it may not have bar mounting holes. Since the Sport1100 had clip-ons like the V11 Sport, I wonder in the xxxx3100 clamp is from the Centauro bin?

[sp838]

Interesting, did this come stock on the early v11's? When you search for the part number GU01493100, it comes up as Sport 1100 IE. It is listed in the parts catalog for the 96-99 sport 1100:

 

http://www.motorky-skutre.sk/PDF/PRILOHY/motorky/moto_guzzi/1100_sport/Sport_1100_1996-1999.pdf   -- page 27/77

 

as well as for the 97-98 Daytona RS:

 

http://www.motorky-skutre.sk/PDF/PRILOHY/motorky/moto_guzzi/daytona/Daytona_RS_1000_1997-1998.pdf   -- page 22/81

 

Haven't seen it in any documentation for the v11...

 

I know that my bike's previous owner replaced the front end after the bike was "knocked over by a car while parked" (or a crash, who really knows) so I don't know if these are the clamps that came with the bike...

[docc]

My only reference was Field's post from back when he was with Moto International. It would be very likely that early V11 Sports used up the remaining 1100Sport-ie clamps. Not sure why yours would have been holed for handlebars unless they were also used on the Centauro. Perhaps the only difference from xxxx3100 to xxxx3130 is that the bar mounting holes go away?

 

Still wish someone could provide the Service Bulletin on the change of triple clamps on early V11 Sports . . . .

 

sp838: what's your (approximate) serial number? (apparently, that Service Bulletin applied to SN > 113032)