Q: Who “Needs” a Steering Damper?

[Greg Field]

I have always set mine up to the highest setting that still steers easily enough at the lowest speeds, and if for any reason I was going to exceed 120 Veglia MPH, I reach down and give it two clicks.... of course I usually forget to dial it back out and when I go to park the heavy steering is unnerving and hazardous, but not as potentally deadly as a wobble at over 120MPH.

 

Ah, the legendary stability of a properly set up red frame. Nothing to fear. Really.

[docc]

I still say:

 

More damper: more high speed weave.

 

Dampers are for the nasty wobble when the front is light and there's a sudden *bump*.

 

In no way do I think my opinion applies to Exiting Turn Two.

[Guest ratchethack]

I still say:

 

More damper: more high speed weave.

By my experience, unless you've got a rear tire without center tread and/or something like a fairing or load imbalance, and/or your chassis setup is out o' whack, and/or tires badly worn or not up to pressure, etc. it's:

 

TOO MUCH damper --> high speed weave.

 

But o' course. . . that's just me.

[gavo]

I still say:

 

More damper: more high speed weave.

 

Dampers are for the nasty wobble when the front is light and there's a sudden *bump*.

In no way do I think my opinion applies to Exiting Turn Two.

 

 

And the rear weight bias wouldn't help either, which is further exacerbated by mounting higher handlebars and moveing the riders weight rearward

[dlaing]

Ah, the legendary stability of a properly set up red frame. Nothing to fear. Really.

Nothing to fear, really.

I have had two times where I wish I had had a better damper, once was when I had a bad tire fitted, and the other time was a near tank slapper (severe oscillation but did not quite reach steering lock) caused by hitting a dip in the desert at 120 Veglias with well over a full second of time in air.

Neither was the FAULT of the red paint on the frame.

Other times rain grooves have caused uneasy feelings, that would have been SLIGHTLY lessened by black paint on frame. It is the paint color you know

But I am sure a better steering damper would do more than a slight change to the frame design and color.

[Greg Field]

If they're so damned stable, why the hell would you need a steering damper? Billy Bob don't need one.

 

Of course, what I'm pointing out is that y'all're admitting that they really aren't that stable. Many of them need a band-aid solution such as a steering damper to make them safe in the real world. But that's the sort of heretical truth that always gets the heretic roasted at the stake, what?

[docc]

TOO MUCH damper --> high speed weave.

 

I thought that's what I said. I can certainly agree.

 

Further, these discussions and debates have almost always helped me get the Sport better set up. It absolutely does not ride like the machine delivered to me new nine years ago.

 

Just think what it will be like when I get around to drilling those cush drive rubbers!

[dlaing]

If they're so damned stable, why the hell would you need a steering damper? Billy Bob don't need one.

 

Of course, what I'm pointing out is that y'all're admitting that they really aren't that stable. Many of them need a band-aid solution such as a steering damper to make them safe in the real world. But that's the sort of heretical truth that always gets the heretic roasted at the stake, what?

Both the red frames and later should use a steering damper. I would not say either "need" a steering damper, but I would likely be dead or fubared if I had not had a steering damper, and that speed wobble would have occurred on my bike or Billy Bob. Maybe a HyperPro active damper would have reduced the wobble to nil, but the slightly longer, slightly more rigid frame would have made little difference. Even my Ohlins forks made little difference. A better rider could have handled it better, but I slowed from about 130 down to about 120, gave it some gas, got airborne, fought the engine torque twisting the bike in the air, came down on rear tire, then a little too hard on front tire, went into violent oscillation, somehow gripped tighter, chose LIFE, leaned forward and asymmetrically pushed on the bars bringing oscillation to a halt, drove a couple miles, got off the bike contemplating kissing the ground, but that would have been too melodramatic, screamed thank you God a couple times. Bottom line is that with my limited riding skills and the mediocre Bitubo damper, I was lucky to be alive. The red frame was a near zero factor. I will agree the red frames need the dampers more, but it needs it only by a small factor more. Road conditions, high speed and miscellaneous factors have more to do with tank slappers that than the color of the frame does.

But if you disagree, maybe next time you are down here with your Billy Bob we should get a video camera and film you eating it at 120MPH with no steering damper.

Or we could just take the dip at 100MPH and live to ride tomorrow.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but has anyone else noticed that longitudinal engines suck for jumping?

[dlaing]

In the case of the bad tire the bike would start to wobble at 80MPH. Todd Eagan helped me lower the front end, which helped, but it did not cure the problem. Replacing the tire with plenty of tread left fixed the problem. FWIW it was a rear tire, which kind of surprised me.

The red frame was NOT the problem.

[GuzziMoto]

If they're so damned stable, why the hell would you need a steering damper? Billy Bob don't need one.

 

Of course, what I'm pointing out is that y'all're admitting that they really aren't that stable. Many of them need a band-aid solution such as a steering damper to make them safe in the real world. But that's the sort of heretical truth that always gets the heretic roasted at the stake, what?

 

Red frame bike, no damper, no stability problems. There are others, I believe.

Whether you have a steering damper depends more on the rider then the color of the frame.

And stability depends more on trail then rake. Dropping the front end increases the rake and puts slightly more weight on the front, unfortuneatly it also decreases trail which is a bad thing. As I recall Hacks red frame bike also has the front end dropped also decreasing the trail (and stability). You can't blame the frame for that.

[Greg Field]

I agree, Guzzimoto; it's just that I've been lectured about how if they're "set up" right, the red frames are perfectly stable, when part of that "proper" set up decreases stability, as you have pointed out. After these folks have decreased the stability of an already marginally unstable machine, they of course feel the need to lecture about how anyone who doesn't keep a steering damper on their machine and keep it cranked to near max is an idiot. Square wheels again.

[belfastguzzi]

Ratchet Recommended Ed's test: "with your hands off the bars, whack one handlebar very quickly"

Am I the only one that has problem with this insanity?

No, no. Me too. He doesn't specify what weight of hammer to use.

I'm confused.

[GuzziMoto]

I agree, Guzzimoto; it's just that I've been lectured about how if they're "set up" right, the red frames are perfectly stable, when part of that "proper" set up decreases stability, as you have pointed out. After these folks have decreased the stability of an already marginally unstable machine, they of course feel the need to lecture about how anyone who doesn't keep a steering damper on their machine and keep it cranked to near max is an idiot. Square wheels again.

I agree with you on that. I do not think people always understand what they do and/or why they get the results they did, but that doesn't change the fact that some red frame V11s are fine with no steering dampers. The stability issue (if there is one) is more down to the operator.

[Greg Field]

You got a good one, Guzzimoto, as most others have. I really do not mean to disparage the red frames. My friend Motomonster has a really sweet one. His seems great. Still, one of the first things he did was to upgrade the steering damper. He is no dummy and does not spend money foolishly.

 

And what you say about riders is spot-on. Some riders bear all their upper-body weight with their torso musculature, transfering just fingertip pressure to the bars. Others let their weight sag to varying degrees onto the bars. Those latter folks act as their own steering damper. What works for one may not work for the other.

 

Gussimoto: Ever tried an Aprilia SXV? It seems to be the type of bike you would love . . .

[Guest ratchethack]

You got a good one, Guzzimoto, as most others have.

Hm. There are GOOD ones, and there are BAD ones -- and apparently, none in between. . .??

 

But where are the BAD ones -- and how to tell the difference, without placing oneself in wholly unsubstantiated, but very clearly alleged MORTAL DANGER, as alleged here, on this very Forum?!?!

 

WARNING: Don't EVER pretend to comprehend the mysteries of the UNEXPLAINED and UNSUBSTANTIATED -- No! -- Not here!

 

. . .So who you gonna call?

 

 

(turn up the volume, Part II)