Q: Who “Needs” a Steering Damper?

[Guest ratchethack]

Or, as I hear in the colloquial vernacular: "Lak ah sed, ah ain't skeered."

I always thought the correct term in middle Tennessee was, "askeered".

 

Enquiring minds. . . (well, you know). . .

[GuzziMoto]

Hatchet Rack says "Those with sincere interest in this topic (I suspect there are actually quite a few) will already have noted the ONLY outside sources of credible, professional expertise on the topic that have been brought to this thread from the start.", To which I point out that the person here in this debate with the strongest opinion is the person with the least amount of experience on the subject by his own admission. Hatchet has said that he does not own any street bikes without steering dampers and he has never experienced a tank slapper on a road bike. He says he has had experince in the dirt with it riding "off-road bikes" without steering dampers fitted, but seems unaware of the fact that steering dampers are fitted to dirt bikes with a different primary purpose then that of dampers fitted to road bikes. While I'm sure you can have a tank slapper on a dirt bike, there is a fundamental difference between the two that he is obviously unaware of.

So, he has no direct experience with tankslappers or ridding bikes, V11 or not, without steering dampers but yet he is happy, no eager, to tell everyone about the dangers of riding without one. Yet he has no experience to back this up. And then when challenged by people WITH direct experience on the subject all he can manage is to pull out a piece written by someone WITH experience on the subject but whose opinions are no more valid then the others with opinions contrary to Hatchets (and he ignore the fact that even his "expert witness" says in the piece that most Guzzis are inherently stable, whoops, I'm sorry, inherently "very stable". The whole time this is going on he is ignoring the fact that he just got thru arguing in another thread that red frame V11s are stable when "properly set up". And Hatchet has even expanded his claim to include all motorcycles need a steering damper (this is something that needs looked into as the majority of bikes do not come with one stock and by his claim that makes the manufacturers liable and grounds for a lawsuit). This is obviously not true and if Hatchet keeps digging a hole like this he is gonna end up in China.

 

And just so we're clear on this, Hatchet, I started butchering your name and insulting you AFTER you persisted in butchering my name and dragging my wife and I into your pathetic attempts tp justify your feable position.

You seem to lack any kind of mechanism that prevents you from asserting your opinion on subjects you have no experience with and then when confronted by people WITH direct experience on the subject who point out the truth of the matter you then insult them and tell everyone that they are wrong and you are right. You are a joke. A bad one.

[GuzziMoto]

I always thought the correct term in middle Tennessee was, "askeered".

 

Enquiring minds. . . (well, you know). . .

 

And now you're gonna tell someone from middle Tennesee how people from middle Tennesee speak...

Is there nothing you don't know better then those that do?

[gavo]

And now you're gonna tell someone from middle Tennesee how people from middle Tennesee speak...

Is there nothing you don't know better then those that do?

 

 

[raz]

there are some people who will simply never get it, accept that, and move on. . . just as I do.

[docc]

. . . but seems unaware of the fact that steering dampers are fitted to dirt bikes with a different primary purpose then that of dampers fitted to road bikes . . .

There 's a difference? I'm in the dark here. The V11 is my only road bike (of "not many") to have a damper.

 

The only 'damper' on my dirtbike ended up fitted to me leg . . .

[docc]

Oh, yes, and the subtle difference in tense between "skeered" and "askeered" is in fact more than just the varied inflection imparted. No, in fact, the Appalachian and Highland Rim dialects are highly developed.

 

Admittedly, this may not translate well and, further, my "people" were from West-By-God-Virginia and not originally from Lower Middle Tennessee (hence, that other local phrase, "Ya ain't from 'round here, are ya?").

 

In short, "skeered" (scared), is a state of being. Something that might drive you blindly to fit a damper (or not), or run a particular tire, or give up riding altogether.

 

"NO FEAR" was the clever marketing slogan, no? "Ain't skeered" they said here just to be sure no one thought this was California.

 

"A'skeered" , on the other hand, is a far more transient tense. I might make you askeered (sic) as you might be set alight; that your relays (God forbid) could be found afire. It's a much more dynamic and transient state. You would not be a'skeered for long.

 

Again, I ain't skeered of my Guzzi. But, there was that one instance up on South Harpeth Road on that uphill-right-hand-off-camber-decreasing-radius-nightmare-turn that the Guzzi broke away, that I was, briefly, a'skeered, as she and I horizontally slid our way into the oncoming BMW E36 sedan.

 

You could live your whole life skeered. To be a'skeered will be followed by some fairly immediate consequence: in my case - just disappointment. But, don't come 'round the back of my house at night - I or my Rottweiller could make you so a'skeered that things could not ever be the same.

 

It's a difference that you may have to wet your pants to truly grasp.

 

(Don't , though, if you don't really have to).

[Guest ratchethack]

It's a difference that you may have to wet your pants to truly grasp.

 

(Don't , though, if you don't really have to).

Thanks for the clarification, Docc.

 

D'you reckon the resident bed wetters above automatically grasp the difference?

 

No, no. . . I guess not. There's clearly very little within some people's capacity to grasp. . .

[Greg Field]

Do those who whack also grasp? Enquiring minds, what?

 

Off to ride my damper-free V11 in the abscense of fear . . .

[guzzi jon]

Greg,

I'm off to ride my eldo, but with so many roper v11 parts on it, should I reinstall the stock 40 year old damper? Inquiring minds, er, uh.....

[Greg Field]

Greg,

I'm off to ride my eldo, but with so many roper v11 parts on it, should I reinstall the stock 40 year old damper? Inquiring minds, er, uh.....

 

The parts are from a Scura, so they should be stable. I bet them yaller forks look good on that white Eldo. Be sure to crank up ratchet's damper as you pass him in the corner on your superior, real-steel Guzzi . . .

[dlaing]

Dave, at some point you have to realize that there are some people who will simply never get it, accept that, and move on. . . just as I do.

 

But if you're sincerely interested in understanding this, and have never experienced instability (as in a tank slapper) it's generally pretty difficult to comprehend what you're up against. Without the experience, I suggest that you're a far better candidate for an unplanned incident than otherwise, on the "been there, no need to go there again" principle. I've had several, all on off-road bikes, all off-road, none ever with a steering damper installed.

 

Every motorcycle, with the possible exception of something like the "stupid bikes" aka OCC "theme" bikes that are truly dangerous for a long list of other reasons, can, and will have instability at the fork under certain conditions. I find Ed's standard impulse test an excellent way to get the feel for how each individual moto behaves when it's forced into a slightly unstable mode, and to test what degree of steering damping it takes to control it. The way to induce slight instability is to follow his directions. It's not difficult, it's not dangerous, and his procedure is self-explanatory. Yes, I speak from repeat experience.

 

I don't ask you to trust me on this, but I assure you that inducing a slight wobble starting with a slight whack on the bars at low speed and working your way up under controlled conditions is infinitely safer -- and a whole lot more intelligent -- than your experience as posted numerous times here of running down an unfamiliar road at 120 MPH and overshooting your visibility so badly that you unexpectedly left the ground for 200 feet with no idea what to expect past the 200 foot mark. At relatively low speeds, a deliberately induced fork wobble has a 100% probability of quickly self-cancelling. At higher speeds, the probability of self-cancelling tapers off, and the probability of self-perpetuating picks up. It's different with every moto. Best get a feel for it (and for what steering damping can do to stop it) starting at low speeds and low amplitudes, per Ed's procedure.

 

I consider a steering damper mandatory, and have used one (as provided and intended by each mfgr.) on every road bike I've owned. The reasons are: 1. Enhanced accuracy and control and 2. Enhanced safety.

 

If you have problems with Ed's version of the old impulse test, or just don't like it, may I suggest find a procedure you like better, or a write-up of the same procedure that you like better. NOTE: I didn't write Ed's procedure, and he didn't dream it up himself, either. You might send Ed an email with your objections. He's pretty good about answering. His email address is published at GuzziTech, at the link I provided earlier.

 

Sure hope this helps.

I just set mine to about two to three clicks from minimum, any more than that and it takes too much muscle at very slow speeds. If I wanted to compromise as you are doing, I'd simply hold on to the bars and induce a small wobble. No need to take hands off bars and whack it. At least your instructions include working up on your whacks, feeling it out. How fast can you be going no handed and whack it, and still be 100% safe?

[docc]

No need to take hands off bars and whack it. At least your instructions include working up on your whacks, feeling it out. How fast can you be going no handed and whack it, and still be 100% safe?

You California guys should be glad there's no active moderator on this forum.

 

Of course, we're drifting the thread somewhere between "24/7 V11" and "Silly Banter . . ."

[dlaing]

You California guys should be glad there's no active moderator on this forum.

 

Of course, we're drifting the thread somewhere between "24/7 V11" and "Silly Banter . . ."

Are you skeered this thread will get shut down if we chat about optimal whacking speed?

[raz]

Are you skeered this thread will get shut down if we chat about optimal whacking speed?

 

I briefly visited something like 120 mph today on my Sporti, with a front tyre long overdue for replacement, and she told me very clearly not to even think of whacking anything. In fact it was the first time ever I let go of the throttle out of fear, on this bike. My steering damper is more or less shot but still mounted and that is probably the biggest culprit. I like the look of steering dampers so I'll replace it with something good looking this winter.