Setting up a V11 Sport.

[NakedV]

Hi All.

Since I picked up the new bike (2001 V11 Sport, naked), I've been following a few threads on here regarding the above. My 1st MG was an 850 Mk11 LM (20+ yrs ago) which I found to be totaly flickable and very easy to ride hard. Having returned to the Marque and buying the V11 after a lot of years away from bikes I've found the V11 a bit of a hand full on a couple of occasions. Setting her into a corner and riding through she's magic, even at (to me) silly angles of lean whilst on the gas as I'm exiting. The problem I've experienced is in executing quick left right left changes when such as when crossing a roundabout at lower speeds, on two occasions I've found myself running wide of my line and wondered if there is a 'rule of thumb' as to steering damper settings? This subject has caused some pretty vitriolic exchanges on here which I'm not interested in getting involved with, nor do I fancy the "hands off, bang the bars" experiment. (Too chicken????). Just looking for some basic pointers. The suspension in all honesty is to my mind set up great, no wollowing and soaks up everything I've encountered up to now without losing any fillings. It may just be that I need to get a lot more miles in to get the knack back.

Regards all, Mike.

[mdude]

I encountered the same as you when I bought my bike and my solution was to first jack up the rear suspension spring nearly all the way to get more weight up front, uprate springs in fork (Wilbers) and back off settings on rebound and compression both front and rear because they were set way too hard. Compliant does it. Hard makes nervous/skittish.

 

Back it off first then set two clicks at a time while taking a test drive to feel the effect.

 

In fear of being cut down by the forums steeringdamperunion I dare to say that the running wide thing is not because of the damper but down to the setting of the rear spring. If you ride with a sagging rear you will encounter serious low speed understeering on throttle. Try the rear spring first. It wont destroy comfort. Depends on your weight of course. Im a fat bast.... myself.

 

I have my steering damper turned up by two or three notches from nothing just because its there, I could probably just have turned it off.

[Tom M]

In addition to mdudes suggestions I will add sliding the forks up through the triple clamps about 10mm or so helps cornering. Worn tires, especially a squared off rear, can hinder cornering ability quite a bit. A lot of us here with 02+ bikes have replaced the stock 180/55 rear tire with a 170/50 for a little better cornering too.

[GuzziMoto]

First, how about setting sag front and rear. As mentioned, too much rear sag can cause the bike to run wide on corner exit. Setting sag is easy to do and very important to the way the bike handles. One thing to point out is that if your springs are too soft (or to hard) then increasing preload to get the sag correct is not the same as having the correct springs. Adding preload does not change the spring tension but only changes the ride height. A simple test of this is to check sag both laden (with a rider aboard) as well as unladen (no rider). Laden sag should be around 20-25% of total travel and unladen sag should be around 5 - 10mm. The actual number for unladen sag is not as important as the fact that there is some sag even with no rider on board. If you have no unladen sag it means your spring is too soft. Unless you are a light weight rider there is a good chance you have too much rear sag. Since you mention this as being an issue in combination corners I will say that it can be caused by the steering damper if it is not letting you turn the bike quick enough, but that is only a possibility and not very likely unless you ride very hard and fast. It is easy to test, though, just remove the damper and ride (carefully at first in case your V11 is possessed by one of those "Demons" the other threads mentions). After you set sag you may want to try dropping the front end 10 mm or so by sliding the fork tubes up in the triple clamps. This steepens the rake but also decreases the trail so it will hurt stability a little. This should not be a problem if you run a damper but I would be careful to test the handling gradually when you make such a change, with or without a damper. Jacking up the rear ride height does the same thing as dropping the front (with the same draw backs plus higher seat height and more ground clearance). Hope this helps.

FYI.. I have a 2000 V11 with no steering damper, Marz. front forks at stock height (but modded to actually have compression dampening), and a Penske rear shock and it does not have the issues you describe. I mention that only in that it should not be a problem running wide.

[jtucker]

Early on, I was having issues cornering on the V11S... it almost felt to me that the front end was losing traction slightly in corners... whether or not it was, I can't say for sure, but it was definitely making for some hair-raising rides. Even got to the point where I was considering getting rid of the bike if I couldn't get it sorted. Ended up having a brief chat with Todd Eagan about it, and decided to try setting up the bike based on the suggestions he wrote up here. Felt like a whole new bike afterwords.

 

I keep my damper at the minimum setting.

 

__Jason

[Baldini]

...850 Mk11 LM (20+ yrs ago) which I found to be totaly flickable and very easy to ride hard. Having returned to the Marque and buying the V11 after a lot of years away from bikes I've found the V11 a bit of a hand full on a couple of occasions. Setting her into a corner and riding through she's magic, even at (to me) silly angles of lean whilst on the gas as I'm exiting. The problem I've experienced is in executing quick left right left changes when such as when crossing a roundabout at lower speeds, on two occasions I've found myself running wide ...

 

The V11 is a bigger softer thing than Mk11 LM & needs suspension to be set up for rider - mainly cos it's actually got some (as you've noticed)...It'll not work well for you until you set sag to suit your wt. Have you done this?

 

It might help to increase rebound damping at forks & rear spring preload. But really, you need to set sag from scratch & take it from there - even if you haven't done this before it's really very simple & doesn't take long.

 

As others have said, dropping the triple clamps down the forks helps weight front. Also helps to get your body wt over the front by sitting right up the seat.

 

V11 runs on big fat tyres, which will never give same feel as skinnies fitted to LM11 but some tyres steer quicker than others, & wear patterns can also affect handling. Most with 4.5" rim find 160 gives better turn than std 170, same for 5.5" - 170 turns better than 180. Check tyre pressures too.

 

As for steering damper - try it backed right off see if it helps (do bars turn easily & freely?), but unless you've got it wound right up or it's knackered I don't think that's your issue.

 

oh...& welcome to the modern ( well sort of ) world....

 

KB

[NakedV]

The V11 is a bigger softer thing than Mk11 LM & needs suspension to be set up for rider - mainly cos it's actually got some (as you've noticed)...It'll not work well for you until you set sag to suit your wt. Have you done this?

 

It might help to increase rebound damping at forks & rear spring preload. But really, you need to set sag from scratch & take it from there - even if you haven't done this before it's really very simple & doesn't take long.

 

As others have said, dropping the triple clamps down the forks helps weight front. Also helps to get your body wt over the front by sitting right up the seat.

 

V11 runs on big fat tyres, which will never give same feel as skinnies fitted to LM11 but some tyres steer quicker than others, & wear patterns can also affect handling. Most with 4.5" rim find 160 gives better turn than std 170, same for 5.5" - 170 turns better than 180. Check tyre pressures too.

 

As for steering damper - try it backed right off see if it helps (do bars turn easily & freely?), but unless you've got it wound right up or it's knackered I don't think that's your issue.

 

oh...& welcome to the modern ( well sort of ) world....

 

KB

 

Cheers all for the advice. I've looked at sag and when solo it's not that far out and handling is great. It's looking like the suspension was being asked a little too much whilst 2 up!

I'll just have to tell my wife she's too heavy . On second thoughts I'll go naked crocodile wrestling, It'll be safer .

[Baldini]

...I'll just have to tell my wife she's too heavy . On second thoughts I'll go naked crocodile wrestling, It'll be safer .

 

It's not so much the small additional weight - it's where you put it .... you could ask her to sit on the petrol tank....

 

KB

[fotoguzzi]

Early on, I was having issues cornering on the V11S... it almost felt to me that the front end was losing traction slightly in corners... whether or not it was, I can't say for sure, but it was definitely making for some hair-raising rides. Even got to the point where I was considering getting rid of the bike if I couldn't get it sorted. Ended up having a brief chat with Todd Eagan about it, and decided to try setting up the bike based on the suggestions he wrote up here. Felt like a whole new bike afterwords.

 

I keep my damper at the minimum setting.

 

__Jason

I don't really have any complaints w/my 02 Lemans.. I have about 1/2" of sag.. do i have to remove the tank to do the spanner adjust? ie, that is at the top of the shock? what is the dial on the bottom of the shock?

[luhbo]

I don't really have any complaints w/my 02 Lemans.. I have about 1/2" of sag.. do i have to remove the tank to do the spanner adjust? ie, that is at the top of the shock? what is the dial on the bottom of the shock?

 

You're kidding, aint you? Tell me you're just kidding or at least trying to test this forum, something like that.

 

Hubert

[lemppari]

I also had a feeling that I'd be loads quicker through turns with my beloved LM I, before I looked at the speedo on my Rosso Mandello while cornering. The feel when cornering a V11 is more vague, unprecise which I attribute to wider tyres.

 

When I rode the V 11 for the first times it steered wide especially when cornering at low speeds but once I got more km's with the bike, I've adjusted my cornering accordingly and don't shoot wide anymore.

 

BTW I just changed a soft compound front tyre to replace the Pirelli Dragon and it resulted in a much more precise handling in cornering. No doubt it will wear quicker, but the better handling more than compensates it!

[pasotibbs]

+1 on all the above,.

Also as its not been mentioned it's possible that the torque reaction of the engine may play a part if you change the engine speed quickly mid turn (ie upshift , downshift or use big throttle changes )

I've never noticed it myself but then my riding style is to corner with a constant or slightly opening throttle whenever possible !

[fotoguzzi]

You're kidding, aint you? Tell me you're just kidding or at least trying to test this forum, something like that.

 

Hubert

actually I'm not.. I know the knob on the bottom is rebound setting but I have never adjusted the spring preload w/the spanners.. it seems to me you'd need to pull the tank off then make a change.. if that isn't satisfactory you have to do it all over again? and again till it's right? that's all I'm asking.. I'm 150 pounds and I think it's still at the stock setting, where should i have it for my weight? Like I said, no complaints with the way it rides now, in fact this is the sweetest Guzzi I have had out of about 6.

[GuzziMoto]

actually I'm not.. I know the knob on the bottom is rebound setting but I have never adjusted the spring preload w/the spanners.. it seems to me you'd need to pull the tank off then make a change.. if that isn't satisfactory you have to do it all over again? and again till it's right? that's all I'm asking.. I'm 150 pounds and I think it's still at the stock setting, where should i have it for my weight? Like I said, no complaints with the way it rides now, in fact this is the sweetest Guzzi I have had out of about 6.

Taking the tank off does not get you much, if any, additional access. It is a tricky job to do. I tend to use a punch and hammer, it is not the "right way" but it is the fast way. The pre load adjustment is at the top of the shock and hard to get to because of the airbox. I would measure your sag first. you should have about an inch of sag from fully extended to how it sits with you in riding position. If you are close with that and have no issues I would leave it alone until you have the bike far enough apart to make the job easier. If you are only 150 lbs I would not be surprised if it was good as it came stock. As far as if you need to change the preload, you can use some math to help you out. If you need say 1/4" more sag then figure that as a percentage of the total travel and then measure the shock shafts travel and figure the same percentage of that is the amount you need to move the preload collar. That will get you in the ball park.

[dlaing]

you said you have half inch of sag.

It would be good to know if that is unladen or laden sag, front or rear, etc.

Unladen sag is the sag from only the bike's weight, defined primarily by pre-load

Laden sag is the sag from the bike and rider (or bike, rider, and passenger) defined primarily by spring rate.

Opinions are all over the place, but in my opinion:

At the rear you want:

between 5 and 20 mm of unladen sag.

between 25 and 40 mm total sag.

At the front you want:

between 25 and 30 mm of unladen sag

between 30 and 40 mm of laden sag

Just because you are within these number ranges does not mean it is well set up, these are just guidelines that raise red flags if you fall outside the range.

Your half inch is presumably unladen sag minus laden sag, which I call rider only sag.

This sag is determined primarily by your weight and spring rate.

half inch is about 13 mm, which is excellent for sport riding and should help cope with two up riding.

The V11 was sprung for a rider about your weight.

You might want to send us the sag with both you and your wife on it, but don't tell her you are sharing her weight with us, LOL!

Ride height can be set using pre-load front and rear, and at the forks, fork height can be changed.

But keep within the parameters suggested.

Following the other's advice, lowering the front end and raising the rear end should give you the results you need.

I am guessing you mostly need to go lower in the front.

But keep in mind the side stand may grind when the front is lowered.

Since you do a lot of two-up, you might benefit from HyperPro rising rate springs that will better handle varying weight.

Also, you said you have no wallowing. While no wallowing is ideal, this could be a clue that you have too much rebound damping set. Too much rebound damping causes the spring to pack down. Packing down, especially in the rear could cause you to run wide. To test, try backing off on rebound damping just to the point of mild wallowing, do you no longer run wide? Then dial it in to just barely eliminate the wallowing. You may need to compromise a bit.