Transmission failure on my Coppa Italia

[Tom M]

OK. I took the advice I found in the FAQ section and called Bonnie of Cannon Race Craft ( http://www.cannonracecraft.com ) at (405) 524 7223 and ordered two (one spare) of their improved springs (very nice people by the way). They priority mailed them so I hope to see them soon. I'll post back on how the installation goes with these.

 

In the meantime, is it true that I do not need any type of gasket when bolting the shift assembly back to the trans? Should I at least use some kind of liquid gasket or something? Seems like it will leak for sure if I don't.

 

Thanks.

 

In reverse order...

 

There is no gasket and you don't have to use a sealer although some have used hylomar(?) or Yamabond with good results. I've done mine twice now with no sealer whatsoever just like the factory did and haven't had any leaks.

 

the second spring that broke on me was from Cannon Racecraft. I replaced it with the updated Guzzi spring. From memory I got around 15k miles out of the factory spring and about half that out of the Cannon spring. I have around 5k on the improved spring so far...

[polebridge]

In reverse order...

 

There is no gasket and you don't have to use a sealer although some have used hylomar(?) or Yamabond with good results. I've done mine twice now with no sealer whatsoever just like the factory did and haven't had any leaks.

 

the second spring that broke on me was from Cannon Racecraft. I replaced it with the updated Guzzi spring. From memory I got around 15k miles out of the factory spring and about half that out of the Cannon spring. I have around 5k on the improved spring so far...

 

 

Thanks Tom.

 

OK, now I am getting a little scared here. Got the spring in the mail. Took apart the assembly as described and replace the spring no problem. Now I am putting it all back together and it occurred to me that those two large gears probably need to go together in a very specific way. I did not mark them when I removed them and now have no idea how to line them back up properly. I had the bike in neutral when I took the assembly off.

 

Now what?? Time to load it on the truck and off to a dealer that is hours away??

[Tom M]

BelfastGuzzi and Keith Baldini have both posted pics showing how those big gear things should look once they are installed. After you install them put the shifter arm on the shift shaft and shift it up and down through the gears. If you can hit all 6 gears you probably have it right. Shift it down to 1st gear then go up one into neutral. Now the shifter plate is ready to go back on.

 

The selector forks in the transmission need to be positioned in the center of their travel to be in neutral. It took me a while to figure this out the first time I did the repair. Here's a link to a thread with a pic that should help your reassembly.

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...&hl=shifter

[polebridge]

BelfastGuzzi and Keith Baldini have both posted pics showing how those big gear things should look once they are installed. After you install them put the shifter arm on the shift shaft and shift it up and down through the gears. If you can hit all 6 gears you probably have it right. Shift it down to 1st gear then go up one into neutral. Now the shifter plate is ready to go back on.

 

The selector forks in the transmission need to be positioned in the center of their travel to be in neutral. It took me a while to figure this out the first time I did the repair. Here's a link to a thread with a pic that should help your reassembly.

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...&hl=shifter

 

OK, I got it! After taking a very close examination of the entire assembly I figured it out. On the top gear there are several evenly spaced notches in which a bearing on the end of a small arm ride. Most are evenly spaced but in one case there is an extra notch between two of them. I figured that this was the notch for neutral. So that took care of the top gear. For the lower gear I noticed that underneath there was a small indentation where the neutral indicator switch sits when the bike is in neutral. That took care of the lower gear. After some fiddling I got it back in place OK. I hooked up the battery to check the neutral light and everything was OK.

 

That is when my real nightmare started.

 

During installation I lost one of those four C-clips. After some internal debate I decided that I would be OK without it. Then I found it on the floor of the garage. OK. I removed the assembly to install the clip and holy #@#%. I forgot to disconnect the battery and major sparks. I could instantly smell rubber burning and before I knew it the positive battery terminal bolt was GLOWING RED and HOT. No kidding. It was actually RED. OK. I pulled the starter cable away to stop the sparking and waited for the bolt to cool enough so that I could remove it. Before removing I turn on the ignition and NOTHING. Crap. I figure I fried my electrics. I removed the bolt and checked the fuses and none were blown so off to a dealer I figured. Oh well!

 

In the meantime I figured I may as well finish the job. I put in the extra c-clip and bolted everything up. Put it all back together and re-attached the positive terminal. This time, when I turned on the ignition I heard the fuel pump and the lights came on. Hit the starter and the engine kick to life. The electrics seem OK so I think I dodged a bullet on this one. Time will tell I guess.

 

Anyone else done something this STUPID!!! If so please share your experience and knowledge as to if I should be checking something in the electric system.

 

Thanks to all for all the help.

 

This forum is a real Godsend for us Guzzi folks.

[polebridge]

STRIKE ONE!!!!

 

I got it all back together, put some oil in the trans started it up. 1st to neutral, no problem. Second, no problem. Back to first, no problem. Can't get third and up though.

 

Any ideas what went wrong?

 

Thanks for any help you can offer. This is starting to get on my nerves now. Riding season is coming to a close here in the Northeast and it's looking like I will be sidelined.

[richard100t]

STRIKE ONE!!!!

 

I got it all back together, put some oil in the trans started it up. 1st to neutral, no problem. Second, no problem. Back to first, no problem. Can't get third and up though.

 

Any ideas what went wrong?

 

Thanks for any help you can offer. This is starting to get on my nerves now. Riding season is coming to a close here in the Northeast and it's looking like I will be sidelined.

I have an idea. If you adjusted your shift linkage too much its probably banging against the frame when you try to upshift. Get on your knees and move the shift lever by hand and look to see if the linkage is striking the frame. If it is then you just have to back it off a few turns & you're good to go.

[docc]

Anyone else done something this STUPID!!! If so please share your experience and knowledge as to if I should be checking something in the electric system.

 

Thanks to all for all the help.

 

This forum is a real Godsend for us Guzzi folks.

 

Just to make you (well, ok, and me) feel better, I must admit to being "mechanically inclined." (i.e: "I can screw up anything!")

 

While it can be most poignant to throw sparks, bleed, or otherwise double your vocabulary while doing some (seemingly) simple task, there are greater measures of true shade-tree knuckle dragging.

 

(don't ask me how I know):

 

-At 2am before taking your family on a 2000 mile round trip (to visit the Italian in-laws), pungent smoke with a green flash (yeah, that one) bursts from the back of your car's instrument panel as you (*wisely*) have attempted to repair the dash illumination. For greater safety and all. You find it is all hell to get the smoke back in the circuit board. It makes getting smoke back into wires look like a cheap parlor trick.

 

-While a friend graciously dismounts your (awful) Pirelli Dragon, you decide to take the silly bracket off that held the doubly silly double hoses from the double charcoal cannisters. Removing the 6mm bolt above the exhaust crossover spews the most beautiful red fluid (from the gearbox) you've ever seen back lit by a drop light. Your only option is to stick your finger in the dyke, rather Dutch-like, and advise your helpful friend that you think you've wet your pants.

 

-Trying to save a few bucks, you spend a week dismantling, cleaning, ordering parts, and reassembling a hateful garden maintenance device (that doesn't love you anyway). Upon reassembly (fifteen man-hours of labor), it will not roll. Your twelve year old son suggests, "Did you put that one-way gear in backwards?" (Of course, I had). I let him live, but he's still on thin ice ten years on.

 

-Your Guzzi sticks in 'second'. You cleverly nurse it into 'first'. Now, it's stuck in 'first.' You long for 'second' and the kind of predatorial mindset that would have prevented you (while leading ten other bikes) from sticking your gearbox in 'first'. You ride at 6000 rpm with your carbon Mistrals through an (otherwise) sedate neighborhood on a Sunday morning profoundly affecting ordinary reasonable pedestrians and their pets. Reaching a safe stopping point at a major highway, (and sound in the presumption that it is The Pawl Spring) you bring the group to a halt and crouch to inspect the appropriate linkages. Whereby, the leg zipper on your Aerostich pops open from the ankle to the crotch. This (new) development requires that you lie down in the road beside your Guzzi (stuck in 'first') to forcibly coerce your leg zipper to release you from its cruel and untimely clutches. Your "friends" refuse any offer of help. In fact they rather turn away and pretend that your not lying there writhing on the tarmac in a hopeless wrestling match with Team YKK. Motorists begin stopping. No explanation seems complete; although I think I heard the words "withdrawal" and "lap-dance." I'm not sure what they had to do with one another. I rode home alone. In 'first.' Within seven to ten days I had a new pawl spring and a new Aerostich. And new friends.

 

-You decide your plumbing makes too much noise as the faucets upstairs (where the Real People live) are shut off. You begin anchoring them with a big bag of special pipe fasteners and a big hammer when you make a big whack into the little/brittle pitiful PVC pipe which begins to demonstrate just how big the water pressure really is. In the greatest of fortune, your toolbox catches most of the water. Your wife is curious what was actually wrong with the pipes before you started beating on them. The pipe glue takes three hours to dry. You take everyone out to eat.

 

I work on lawn mowers and gas grills, too. Oh, and then there's the Volvo.

 

Save us, I gots tools. :luigi:

[polebridge]

OK docc, so I am not the only one.

 

Got up this morning an hour early for work on the bike before heading out to the job. Wow what a little practice can do. I was able to get the shift assembly off of the bike in just 20 minutes this time.

 

Here is what I checked. All five pins in place. Manually moved the shift linkage through the gears. I was able to get to fifth ok but am having trouble getting it into sixth gear (this is just playing with the shift assembly not the gear box). Don't know why I can't get sixth. I will look at it more closely later.

 

I just know that if I put it back on I will only be able to shift from 1 to 2 and back. I checked to see if the linkage was hitting the frame and it looks clear to me.

 

Is there something that I need to do in the gear box? with the forks or something. When I put the assembly in place the neutral light comes on and I can freely spin the rear wheel to I assume that the gear box is in neutral. Makes me wonder exactly what happened to the broken end of that shifter spring?

 

Any ideas anyone?

 

Thanks

[raz]

You did not find all parts of the spring? I would keep looking almost indefinitely, whether or not all gears engage.

 

If you did find them, the look of them should tell if they were part of a bigger conspiration...

[richard100t]

OK docc, so I am not the only one.

 

Got up this morning an hour early for work on the bike before heading out to the job. Wow what a little practice can do. I was able to get the shift assembly off of the bike in just 20 minutes this time.

 

Here is what I checked. All five pins in place. Manually moved the shift linkage through the gears. I was able to get to fifth ok but am having trouble getting it into sixth gear (this is just playing with the shift assembly not the gear box). Don't know why I can't get sixth. I will look at it more closely later.

 

I just know that if I put it back on I will only be able to shift from 1 to 2 and back. I checked to see if the linkage was hitting the frame and it looks clear to me.

 

Is there something that I need to do in the gear box? with the forks or something. When I put the assembly in place the neutral light comes on and I can freely spin the rear wheel to I assume that the gear box is in neutral. Makes me wonder exactly what happened to the broken end of that shifter spring?

 

Any ideas anyone?

Ok I had this problem too. Unfortunately its very hard to explain what it is or how to fix it. The thing is I dont know the names of any of those parts. Anyway the gear with the pins under it needs to come off, so you have to remove the snap ring. The mechanism thats in there with the pins has almost certainly gotten out of whack. It may take you a little time to figure it out but once you get it on right & go clicking through the gears you'll know its fixed. I think this has happened to a few other members here too.

 

Thanks

[polebridge]

Thank you one and all!!! :)

 

Just rode it for the first time since the spring broke and got all six gears no problem! Not sure what I did wrong the first time. The only thing I could detect was that one of the retaining clips had come out of it's groove allowing the upper gear to move just a little. I got four new clips, took it all apart and installed the new clips. Got it back in and now the good times can roll again. PITA but I am glad to be riding my Coppa again.

 

Thanks again to this forum. It is an indispensable resource for anyone riding a Moto Guzzi. I wonder if any other brand has a forum this good? I seriously doubt it!

[NakedV]

Are there any symptoms leading up to failure? A couple of times I've noticed that after a down shift the pedel sticks momentarily before springing back up and tapping the base of my boot. Gear shift etc is fine up to now, mileage is approaching 12k miles, Bike is a 2002 model according to the guide on here but was 1st registered in August 2001. Cheers, Mick.

[gstallons]

Disconnect the shift linkage from the shift lever. Move the lever up and down.If it will not fall after raising the lever by hand. If it is not free, remove the pivot bolt and lubricate the bushin the bolt goes through.

If it( shift lever) moves freely, suspect something inside the shifter housing.

p.s. the shift lever bolt nut is a jam nut. The frame is threaded where the shift lever bolt goes through.

 

My bike sat for 4 weeks waiting on a shift spring to find the shift lever pivot was sticking.

[GuzziMoto]

Are there any symptoms leading up to failure? A couple of times I've noticed that after a down shift the pedel sticks momentarily before springing back up and tapping the base of my boot. Gear shift etc is fine up to now, mileage is approaching 12k miles, Bike is a 2002 model according to the guide on here but was 1st registered in August 2001. Cheers, Mick.

When my wifes bike did that I thought it was the shift spring but it turned out to be the linkage was binding.

[polebridge]

Are there any symptoms leading up to failure? A couple of times I've noticed that after a down shift the pedel sticks momentarily before springing back up and tapping the base of my boot. Gear shift etc is fine up to now, mileage is approaching 12k miles, Bike is a 2002 model according to the guide on here but was 1st registered in August 2001. Cheers, Mick.

 

Sorry to say but there was no warning. I strongly suggest that you order a spare spring (they are cheap) just to be on the safe side. Also, if you really want to be prepared, check out the FAQ section regarding this and cut down a proper size allen wrench as described. This way you can be prepared to make a fix right away should you encounter problems. Good luck with yours.