Clutch problem? Or not ? 04 Lemans

[mznyc]

Hey Dave,

Don't let the bickering turn you off.As dysfunctional as Congress,but ultimately successful this forum is. Checks and balances,...

Both RH and Greg are highly experienced with Guzzis and passionate about the brand,and both major contributors to the forum.We agree to disagree most of the time, it can be highly entertaining.(this must be why reality and nature shows are so popular)

Enjoy,...and learn.we all have to listen to each other and decide what the truth is for ourselves,...

[GreasyDave]

If you pull in the clutch on a normally functioning V11, it'll sound a little tingley-rattley. If you release the clutch, it may or now make knocking sounds, depending on the position of gears and dogs. What's hapening in the trnas is just shafts and dogs and gears harmonizing with the engine while not under load. They're just rattling around randomly 'cause most of the shafts are spinning but there is no load. The odd firing order exacerbates this. If it does knock, feather the clutch in or out 3-4 times, and you can usually get the knock to go away. Is this what you're hearings? If so, it's entirely normal.

 

Certainly, there could be something wrong with your clutch, but we typically don't see problems with the two-platers until into the 30,000-40,000-mile range, and many go far longer than that. On very rare occasion, one will break the splined center out of a plate. Very rare occasion. This is actually much more common on the Calis than on the V11 Sports.

Thank you Very Much Greg, this is EXACTLY what I am experiencing, every pull of the lever gives one of three different sounds when released 1) smooth and purring along beautifully 2) like the gears are all rattling together 3) like a severe rod knock 4) back to smooth. Operation of clutch is perfect in all regards, so I'll just chalk it up to "nature of the beast" Thank you for taking the time to answer me, I do appreciate it, and am truly sorry this had to be the cause of an argument between you two guys, I know you both wanted to help. I feel a lot better about this (non) issue now!

[GreasyDave]

Coupla thoughts, Dave.

 

You didn't mention what your idle RPM reads, nor is it possible to know how accurate your tach might be without benchmarking it against a known accurate reference, but both Veglia and ITI tachs have sometimes been known to be considerably off.

 

We've had people reporting idle RPMs down around severe low oil pressure risk territory, as low as 800-900 on the dial (accuracy unknown). If you think the true idle RPM could be somewhere down around 1K RPM or so, it might be helpful to find a place where the acoustics are good (an alley perhaps) and listen to the clutch racket at idle in neutral, both engaged and alternately disengaged, and then use the throttle advance lever to raise it up 200 or so RPM higher than indicated previously, and give another listen to compare. If you notice its clearly quieter at the higher RPM, chances are you need to bump it up. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have the tach calibrated if it's off -- or at least get a read on how far off it is at idle.

 

FWIW, I have a riding Pal with an '04 LeMans who can make distinct changes in the level of clutch racket in neutral at idle by engaging and disengaging it a few times. Next pull and release, it will change back. Mine's always the same. Just another thought, but seems reasonable to me that with 3 disks rattling about on splines in the stack, all with enough clearance to freely "float" when the clutch is engaged, that with any amount of wear, the clearances naturally open up, and the "music" tends to get louder. How all 3 "line up" when suddenly clamped up together as the clutch is disengaged would tend to determine exactly wot kind of "music" comes out. . . Louder music -- clamped or unclamped, at lower RPMs, as Pete explained above.

 

Guzzi music.

 

Hope this helps, my friend.

Thank you as well RH, for taking the time to look up this info as well, and post it for me, and, as stated in your last FWIW paragraph, that is EXACTLY what I am experiencing, and I can make it (the bad rumblings) go away at will, with 2 more quick pulls on the lever. I now feel I have a better understanding of whats goin on, and again, am sorry for having possibly caused an "E-Fued" at the expense of wanting to learn... but really, from what I've read here, I will assume all is well with my bike, and I'm very happy to have set my mind at ease.....for now.... because it never really ends...does it?

Again, much thanks to both of you, I look forward to more advice again someday, when the next issue rears its ugly head.... shouldnt be more than a week or two, I suspect

[docc]

There seems to be no downside (oiling, charging, or otherwise) to a higher idle.

 

Docc (with the Veglia tach that reads 300 rpm too high)

[GreasyDave]

There seems to be no downside (oiling, charging, or otherwise) to a higher idle.

 

Docc (with the Veglia tach that reads 300 rpm too high)

Oh yes, I forgot to mention... My idle is at 1200 RPM, but give the info that they may be misleading, I mentioned i may bump it up. However, as all is well, I recon I will leave it for now.... all is well charging and oiling wise !

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .again, am sorry for having possibly caused an "E-Fued" at the expense of wanting to learn...

Say Dave

 

I'm a former Michigander meself, graduated (CMU) with a guy from Royal Oak. I'm originally from East Grand Rapids.

 

Don't be too concerned about sparking off a rip roaring Clusterfarge on the ol' Forum. It's the nature of these things, just wot naturally happens more or less on a regular basis, with little or no provocation required.

 

Moto Forums exist in a truly weird slice o' cyberspace stuffed with an odd blend of low people in high places and high people in low places. As moto forums go, this one benefits somewhat from being International, but let's face it -- It's mostly a "hardscrabble" mob o' rejects, blaggards, brain donors, garden-variety ne'er-do-wells, social misfits, and nut-logs in various stages of arrested development, with a few stray gutter-level proto-humans amongst a swarm o' dedicated miscreants and past, present, & future inmates of penitentiaries and sanatoriums.

 

To be completely straightforward and up front about it, with anything resembling hygiene habits being few and far between hereabouts, there's not all that many who clean up after themselves here, let alone bathe, or take regular showers. But despite all those sucking up oxygen here without a hint o' any such intention, there are usually always at least a select few with some actual capacity to learn, who also posses a sincere interest in learning, and who actually help others in the process. The rest bring all they will ever know with them, broadcast their ignorance, and leave the same way.

 

Despite all this, and amazingly enough, there's often a treasure trove of the very best V11 Guzzi expertise available anywhere on the planet to be gleaned here & there from in and amongst the obligatory reeking piles of excrement and pools of other bodily fluids at the bottom of the cage.

 

As a member here, you really can't object too much about having to watch where you step, or shooing off the dung flies whenever you stroll thru the stable.

 

Some stuff you just learn to put up with. Otherwise, how else you ever gonna get mounted up and go for a ride??

 

Welcome, my friend.

 

RH

[Jose Paulo]

I think that is normal. My Guzzi V11 have the same "problem".

[guzzi jon]

I've spent some time with both Pete and Greg at the same time, they see pretty much eye to eye on all things guzzi. Greg's authored books, and both Greg and Pete, are globally respected experts on Moto Guzzi's, one of the other posters here is not like Pete or Greg, (although he may be bald and crazy looking, donts know)

 

Edit: Greg's currently in Carlsbad with Dave and other dealers meeting with the CEO of Piaggio and other design/development guys, perhaps he could axe them

[Skeeve]

There seems to be no downside (oiling, charging, or otherwise) to a higher idle.

 

There is one, minor, downside: increased idle rpm leads to increased fuel consumption. Obviously, unless you're stuck in traffic a LOT, the difference between 1200 rpm and 1500 rpm isn't going to amount to a heck of a lot, but if you live somewhere that the fuel costs are much higher than here in the U.S., it may be a consideration.

[Greg Field]

Yes, I was in California meeting withe the Piaggi-ites.

 

Yesterday was amazing. Three of us dealer weinies had a long audience with the Italian brand manager for Moto Guzzi. We got to tell him what we needed and suggest things Guzzi should change and build, and then he showed us some photos of what they were thinking of making next. Pretty amazing. Monday, I got to meet Miguel Galuzzi (designer of the Monster, and now head of design for the Piaggio brands) and bend his ear a bit. I probably enjoyed that more than he did but he seemed somewhat amused, though non-commital. Funny thing was, one of the bikes I asked him for was part of what we saw in the photos of models under consideration. Pretty cool, I thought.

[mznyc]

Ooh,this sounds promising.Greg sounding positive is a Huge step in the right direction,hopefully they aren't just jerkin your or our chain/chains.Was Dave there?For me, yours and Dave's comments on where Piaggio has been going and where they should go ,have been right on.Hopefully they will listen.You guys know the American market,and it could be quite profitable for them if they could figure it out, ie., the Monster.Five of the last 6 new bikes,(maybe the Griso will be a winner,although it is not replacement for the V11S and has had some mech problems),have been met with a collective yawn.(Breva Sport,V7 Classic,Norge,Stelvio)All good bikes but not the best in any of their classes and more expensive than many in their class.How you can be successful with that combination is beyond me,..

Sorry off-topic,....

[Greg Field]

Ooh,this sounds promising.Greg sounding positive is a Huge step in the right direction,hopefully they aren't just jerkin your or our chain/chains.Was Dave there?For me, yours and Dave's comments on where Piaggio has been going and where they should go ,have been right on.Hopefully they will listen.You guys know the American market,and it could be quite profitable for them if they could figure it out, ie., the Monster.Four of the last 5 new bikes have been met with a collective yawn.(Breva Sport,V7 Classic,Norge,Stelvio)All good bikes but not the best in any of their classes and more expensive than many in their class.How you can be successful with that combination is beyond me,..

Sorry off-topic,....

 

Yes, Dave was there. It's made me very hopeful.

[Tom M]

So Piaggio has Galuzzi and Terblanche on board? That's cool. I hope this means there will be new sporty Guzzis in the coming years that don't look like BMW knock-offs.

[docc]

In the Darwinism of Motorcycling, Guzzi has yet remained. Let us hope it stays so, but remember it is about being the "fittest" and evolving to meet the demands of ever changing environs.

 

Ford Motor Company (perhaps the only real, surviving American global carmaker) once noted that (and I paraphrase) "an enthusiast is worth ten sales." (or some such); as a satisfied Guzzisto, I suppose Piaggio's only hope in me is to provide me with a proper parts and service network that I can espouse the glory and fineness of Guzzi to all in the land.

 

Here's to my hope in their prosperity!!

 

(ok, so I'll drink to just about anything)

[Greg Field]

So, for the non-parrots, let me ask a question that might lead to understanding: Would you rather be smacked on the head 1000 times a minute by a 10-ounce hammer or 1200 times a minute by a 14-ounce hammer?