It's like a disease

[Dan M]

I just rowed through 37 pages of theory, argument, back stabbing, side taking, blovating, name calling, profession bashing, he saids, she saids, moderating, heritage questioning and maybe even a member banning.

The subject?

Are you ready?

A device that alters air temperature signal to the ECM (this time for BMWs) .

 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-...uct-review.html

 

 

 

thankfully I'm not a member there... oh the temptation... I'm just sayn'

[Guzzi2Go]

Ours was better. It featured philistines, bohemians and sincerely not interested. We had mathemathics for eight year olds and yet to be invented physics. Thermal goo, yak fat, thermal inertia, lag time, blovial quotients, heat sinks, air flow, air gap, ultra-light sensors, resistors, thermistors, potentiometers (linear and others), relevant and irrelevant lines, baits, measurements of all sorts. There were no problems to be solved and excellent solutions for them. Hell, it even included the (incorrect) answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.

 

BMW tech discussions! Pah! Amateurs!

[Dan M]

Ours was better. ........BMW tech discussions! Pah! Amateurs!

 

Makes me proud

[belfastguzzi]

I just rowed through 37 pages of.....a device that alters air temperature signal to the ECM

Oh, why didn't you say earlier?

 

If you're interested, it's quite easy to alter the air temperature signal. Here's how:

 

"The hot-air heaters are connected to the fuel system and vehicle electrical equipment. The air heating is performed owing to heat, evolved in the heater while the fuel is burning.

When the hot-air heater switches on, the pilot light lights up on the operating control.

The candle becomes to glow;

the hot-air heater starts to operate on the low revolutions.

In 25 seconds the fuel delivery starts. When the flame is identified and burning process is regulated, the candle switches off.

The heater heats at maximum while the heat exchanger is not heated up before operating temperature.

In the heating mode the internal temperature and employed air temperature are constantly taken and compared with the temperature on the control device. When the predetermined temperature is reached, the heater changed over the waiting mode; at the same time air circulation is performed. And as soon as the temperature value will fall below the predetermined one, the heater switches on again. When the heater switches off, the pilot light becomes dim and the fuel delivery ceases. Then in order to cool the heater, the blowout follows ( the ventilator is only operates)."

 

If anyone has a better idea, I'd be pleased to hear it.

[DeBenGuzzi]

pah, whatever, ours was much less tech savvy, air filters

[GuzziMoto]

I just rowed through 37 pages of theory, argument, back stabbing, side taking, blovating, name calling, profession bashing, he saids, she saids, moderating, heritage questioning and maybe even a member banning.

The subject?

Are you ready?

A device that alters air temperature signal to the ECM (this time for BMWs) .

 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-...uct-review.html

 

 

 

thankfully I'm not a member there... oh the temptation... I'm just sayn'

They had a huge debate over ALTERING the air temp sensor reading to be INACCURATE, thus fooling the ECU into adding more fuel and hopefully making the engine run better.

We had a huge debate over making the engine temp sensor MORE ACCURATE by adding a resistor, heat sink, or an air gap to somehow improve accuracy.

While both threads are equally amusing, they are diametrically opposed.

I'm just sayin'.

[DeBenGuzzi]

They had a huge debate over ALTERING the air temp sensor reading to be INACCURATE, thus fooling the ECU into adding more fuel and hopefully making the engine run better.

We had a huge debate over making the engine temp sensor MORE ACCURATE by adding a resistor, heat sink, or an air gap to somehow improve accuracy.

While both threads are equally amusing, they are diametrically opposed.

I'm just sayin'.

oh yeah, I forgot or blacked that one outta my mind, but off the top of my head for longest banter topic I thought of air filters. Well that or global warming.

[Dan M]

Oh, why didn't you say earlier?

 

If you're interested, it's quite easy to alter the air temperature signal. Here's how:

 

"The hot-air heaters are connected to the fuel system and vehicle electrical equipment. The air heating is performed owing to heat, evolved in the heater while the fuel is burning.

When the hot-air heater switches on, the pilot light lights up on the operating control.

The candle becomes to glow;

the hot-air heater starts to operate on the low revolutions.

In 25 seconds the fuel delivery starts. When the flame is identified and burning process is regulated, the candle switches off.

The heater heats at maximum while the heat exchanger is not heated up before operating temperature.

In the heating mode the internal temperature and employed air temperature are constantly taken and compared with the temperature on the control device. When the predetermined temperature is reached, the heater changed over the waiting mode; at the same time air circulation is performed. And as soon as the temperature value will fall below the predetermined one, the heater switches on again. When the heater switches off, the pilot light becomes dim and the fuel delivery ceases. Then in order to cool the heater, the blowout follows ( the ventilator is only operates)."

 

If anyone has a better idea, I'd be pleased to hear it.

 

 

You know I thought of that but couldn't find a spot for that bulky thermostat.

 

Another HVAC guy? Can't swing a dead cat 'round here without hitting one.

[belfastguzzi]

You know I thought of that but couldn't find a spot for that bulky thermostat.

 

Another HVAC guy? Can't swing a dead cat 'round here without hitting one.

 

I got rid of my cat. Open pipe now.

Only thing is, I could do with

ALTERING the air temp sensor reading to be INACCURATE, thus fooling the ECU into adding more fuel and hopefully making the engine run better.

 

Any thoughts on how to do that? Enquiring mind.........

[Guzzi2Go]

They had a huge debate over ALTERING the air temp sensor reading to be INACCURATE, thus fooling the ECU into adding more fuel and hopefully making the engine run better.

We had a huge debate over making the engine temp sensor MORE ACCURATE by adding a resistor, heat sink, or an air gap to somehow improve accuracy.

While both threads are equally amusing, they are diametrically opposed.

I'm just sayin'.

Are you sure about that? Improving accuracy?

 

Both threads are about fuping a temp sensor (air vs. oil). The only difference is that they, riders of perfect, shiny, Teutonian machines had to resort to a "professional" solution with associated cost of some $300, as opposed to us, riders of Italian piece of

...er...

machinery, resorted to $5 heatsinks, 50 cents resistors, 10 cents worth of termo goo...

 

Don't know at what rate yak fat goes these days, but I am sure that air gaps come at no extra charge.

[Dan M]

I got rid of my cat. Open pipe now.

Only thing is, I could do with

ALTERING the air temp sensor reading to be INACCURATE, thus fooling the ECU into adding more fuel and hopefully making the engine run better.

 

Any thoughts on how to do that? Enquiring mind.........

 

 

That is what the BMW thread was about. Look to it for your answers.

 

What we did before was replace the brass coolant temp sensor with a plastic air temp sensor since we are reading the air temp inside the factory sensor holder. Remember? No fooling, just faster more accurate readings using the factory designed sensor holder.

 

Don't want to start another rehashing of the issue but in the old thread GM asked for data to prove the theory. I did some side by side testing a few months ago but other than PMing it to the interested I figured no sense in posting.

Since you are prodding, this is what I came up with:

 

This was done on a bench, sensor probes and thermometer grouped together, not touching each other, suspended in air. Heat was by a blow drier as a heat gun was way too hot for this use.

 

Start temp 76F - OE sensor 2.70Kohm / GM sensor 2.61Kohm

Apply heat 15 seconds - OE 1.99Kohm / GM .54 Kohm - instant reaction on the GM

Remove heat and observe, 30 second mark OE still dropping to 1.60Kohm / GM rising to .89 Kohm

Reapply heat this time for 30 seconds. (Thermometer leveled off at 182F) - OE .80 / GM .45

Heat removed, 15 seconds later OE still dropping to .78 / GM recovering to .81

15 more seconds of cooling, OE has stabilized and recovered to .80 / GM up to .87

15 more - OE .87 / GM 1.00

15 more - OE .95 / GM 1.13

15 more - OE .95 / GM 1.17

15 more - OE 1.00 / GM 1.21

15 more - OE 1.01 / GM 1.27

Wait one minute - OE 1.14 / GM 1.45

another minute - OE 1.26 / GM 1.60

another minute - OE 1.35 / GM 1.77

 

Summary: As thought, the air temp sensor reacts instantly to applied heat and levels out as soon as heat is removed. The OE sensor continues to lose ohms for 15 - 30 seconds after heat is removed before starting to climb. The air temp sensor also cools more quickly than the brass unit but not as quick as I expected.

Air sensor movement is smooth, brass unit moves in chunks.

 

You see, a coolant sensor in air is very slow.

 

Cover your Inquiry?

[luhbo]

Dan, you're a good soul.

 

Hubert

[belfastguzzi]

BMW thread was about.

What we did before was....

fooling... rehashing.... PMing... posting... prodding... probes and thermometer grouped together....

Heat was by a blow drier as a heat gun was... hot

Apply heat

Remove heat

Reapply heat

Heat removed

15 more seconds

15 more

15 more

15 more

15 more

15 more

Wait one minute

another minute

another minute

 

Summary: As thought, the air temp sensor reacts... to applied heat...

Air sensor movement is smooth,

brass unit moves in chunks.

You see, a coolant sensor in air is very slow.

 

Seems convincing.

I'd try it myself but I worry about the excessive contribution to global warming.

Is that something to be concerned about?

I'd be pleased to hear your opinion.

 

BTW, why did you use BMW thread?

I'd use cheaper Chinese polyester thread, but that's just me.

[belfastguzzi]

BMW thread... Look to it for your answers.

 

On reflection,

 

I'd rather go and journey where the diamond crest is flowing and

Run across the valley beneath the sacred mountain and

Wander through the forest

Where the trees have leaves of prisms and break the light in colors

That no one knows the names of

 

And when it's time I'll go and wait beside a legendary fountain

Till I see your form reflected in it's clear and jewelled waters

And if you think I'm ready

You may lead me to the chasm where the rivers of our vision

Flow into one another

 

but that's just, er, me, I think

or,

anyone else want to give it a go.....?

[GuzziMoto]

Are you sure about that? Improving accuracy?

 

Both threads are about fuping a temp sensor (air vs. oil). The only difference is that they, riders of perfect, shiny, Teutonian machines had to resort to a "professional" solution with associated cost of some $300, as opposed to us, riders of Italian piece of

...er...

machinery, resorted to $5 heatsinks, 50 cents resistors, 10 cents worth of termo goo...

 

Don't know at what rate yak fat goes these days, but I am sure that air gaps come at no extra charge.

Nope... See ...

"more accurate readings "

Of course there is one minor flaw in the testing Dan M did later, You used them to Measure AIR TEMP.

Since that is not what they are measuring in use it does not mean much. But atleast it is an effort and I applaude it. But a more useful test might be to mount the sensors on the motor as intended and then see what the difference is between the actual temp of the head, easily checked with a infra-red temp gun, and the signal being interpreted by the ECU, which would require interface software. I doubt these kinds of things will ever be done, I certainly don't care enough to put the effort in. Nothing in what was done indicates that it would be worth while. If your bike runs better then you should be happy about that. The fact that certain peoples bikes ran worse when they added paste to improve heat transfer but then when they experimented with heat sinks, air gaps, and air temp sensors, their bike ran better so they concluded that they must be improving the accuracy of the sensor since their bike ran better, tells me that the is no testing required as non would likely ever both give them the results they want and satisfy the other side who thinks that what they accomplished is about the same as what all these BMW people have done. That is, trick their bikes ECU into adding more fuel so that their bike runs better. It is a low buck and simple way of adjusting the bikes fueling, which tends to be too lean in the bottom and middle ranges stock. I personally prefer better methods to achieve this as it lets me richen up the parts that need it and lean out the parts that don't.