Dash light issues

[David L]

I have an 01 V11 rosso mandello that I got earlier this year with only a 1,000 miles on it, so obviously it hasn't been ridden much. Everything is perfect on the bike except the dash lights. They come and go as they please and it's all of them. Sometimes neutral doesn't work, sometimes the turn signals don't work (but they work as normal on the bike), and it made me walk one day as the reserve gas light didn't come on as it should have. I also think this might have something to do with the kickstand kill switch as 95% of the time the bike won't start with the kickstand down even though it really is in neutral, but I can't prove it as the light doesn't come on very often on the dash.

 

I've read about several relay issues on the bike, but was curious if this is a common problem, or if this seems to be a one off problem on my bike. Any help would be appreciated.

[Guest ratchethack]

Hi David. Welcome.

 

This sounds like classic Guzzi relay problems. V11's are notoriously finicky about relays, and IMHO, both the OE and the usual suspect replacement relays are the most likely sources of symptoms like yours. See many many threads on this. Like many others here over the last 6 years, I've tried Siemens, Bosch, Tyco, GEI, and Omron. Again like many others, the ONLY relays I have not had any problems with wotsoever are Omron.

 

Front to back:

 

START

LIGHTS

NEUTRAL

ECU

EFI

 

If yours are all 5-pin (some are 4-pin, best always use 5-pin for interchangeability), you can swap them out to ID the clinker. Be careful when installing them. If not lined up correctly, the female spade recepticles in the relay block can get shoved down and out the back. Should your symptoms not be due to a bad relay (highly unlikely, IMHO), you're well advised to advance replace them all anyway, and carry at least one as a spare.

 

May I highly recommend from personal experience Omron relays from forum member John Mickowski, aka Ryland. He offers them at a very reasonable price and backs up his sales with qualified, comprehensive engineering research and support, and Guzzi-specific application technical knowledge, not to mention a 1-year warrantee. You can order Omrons and note site FAQ's and John's linked GEI/Omron relay comparo study here:

 

http://www.motratech.com/Motratech/MGRC20.html

 

Hope this helps.

[Steve G.]

I have an 01 V11 rosso mandello that I got earlier this year with only a 1,000 miles on it, so obviously it hasn't been ridden much. Everything is perfect on the bike except the dash lights. They come and go as they please and it's all of them. Sometimes neutral doesn't work, sometimes the turn signals don't work (but they work as normal on the bike), and it made me walk one day as the reserve gas light didn't come on as it should have. I also think this might have something to do with the kickstand kill switch as 95% of the time the bike won't start with the kickstand down even though it really is in neutral, but I can't prove it as the light doesn't come on very often on the dash.

 

I've read about several relay issues on the bike, but was curious if this is a common problem, or if this seems to be a one off problem on my bike. Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

Hi Dave,

I think you may find the source of this issue may be more than one cause. I've experienced ALL of the problems that a pre: 2002 V11's could have. The neutral light issue is probably the plug that connects to the actual switch, underneath the gearbox, they get loose, full of dirt & crap. The low fuel light, well, that's never worked on mine. Certainly the relay issue can and has, and continue to cause electrical 'inconsistancies'. Ratchet has correctly mentioned above that use of the U.S. made Omron micro-relay part # 7010002-0 will virtually eliminate any more relay- bank related problems, contrary to the thoughts expressed by others on a current "relay" thread going on now, which thinks the complete renewal of the relay bank is what's needed. If you've got lots of time to kill, I say go for it. But a simple plug in of 5 new robust relays seems like a much easier fix, that DOES fix the problem. The pre-2002 wiring harness has the odd strange coupling of systems onto specific relays, an example is the electronic tachometer and the headlight/taillight/dash lights, all on one relay. All the more reason to chuck the original Seimens relays which would work fine if the wiring harness was not an ill conceived design.

 

Steve

[Murray]

Relays tend to affect high powered circuits, there were a batch of V11's that did have a crap bunch of relays but now it has become the defuat suggestion for any electrical problem, Whilst I don't think that related to your problem gving the pins and sockets a clean will do it no harm. Your problem sounds more like a dodgy common earth for the dash or something similar. Here is a very good site with legiable wiring diagrams for various models (not to be confused with the ones in the back of the owners manual. http://www.guzzitech.com/guzzi007/sportissimo.html (99v11 sport) I'd also look at the main connector for the instrument pannel as well as where the instrument pannel bolts onto the frame as normally these are earther through the mounting bolts and with time and corrosion these can be less effective.

[GuzziMoto]

I would have to agree with Murray, I don't recall the dash lights being on their own relay, so unless you are having other issues as well and just didn't say, I would think you have a bad connection or ground. Relays can definetely be an issue, they failed on my wifes bike enough that we carry spares when we travel. But they effect whole sections when they fail. Unless you can isolate one relay that controls all the things you are having issues with AND nothing else, it is likely not a relay problem.

Just follow standard electrical troubleshooting practice.

[David L]

I haven't had a chance to get out to look at it (lots of work and now snow.....) but the only problems are the ones listed. I've put about 1400 miles on it and 90% of the time the turn signal lights in the dash work, about 10% of the time neutral works, and I have only seen the low gas light flicker once. Now that it's mentiond it almost sounds like a loose connection or a bad ground somewhere. I will take a look at the wiring diagram to see if there is a shared ground somewhere.

 

I will have to add that I am still in my 20's and have owned at least 6 or 7 honda's and this is my first "other" bike. This bike will keep up with modern bikes until just over the triple digits in mph, then it starts to lack a little muscle up top. I don't do riding like that on the street so it doesn't really matter. I have had very clean bikes in the past and I can't go one stop light to another without being looked over.

[Skeeve]

Bad ground(s). Remember that most of the idiot lights depend on grounding thru the headstock bearings [iirc], so if the bearings were/are properly greased, you inherit electrical gremlins. Run a ground wire from the instruments to the engine, & make sure that the battery ground doesn't just to frame but also has a wire to the block.

 

I am the last person to ask for help when it comes to controlling the magic smoke, but this set of symptoms arises so regularly here & over at WG & other classic moto-related forums, magazines, etc. that I'm fairly confident in my diagnosis. It is quite simply, what I'd do in your shoes [& I'm unusually lazy, so I always take the easy solution 1st! ]

[Lloyd67]

For what its worth I've just had the fairing off my Le mans to replace the headlight bulb. While it was off I set about sorting out the wiring around the headstock. It only took for me to move any of the connections ( and there seems to be about twice as many as it needs) for the lights to start going mental. Especially the indicators, neutral light and charge light. There are a lot of cable ties and long wires with aggressive kinks in them that would cause the internal wires to be under more stress than necessary. I agree that relays get a bad press and are not always the source of your woes. I would strongly suggest you check out the mess under the headstock first.

 

It should be noted that a lot of the electrickery occuring on my bike is self induced from using a Guzzi tankbag that secures around the headstock and fouls these connections very badly.

 

Hope this helps.

[docc]

DL, having had four Hondas, and this "other" bike, let me encourage you to groom and clean all the connectors you run across on your Guzzi. Be certain you have a fresh AGM battery with tight connections (all of the grounding in this harness goes back to the battery).

 

True, the instrument lights do not go through a relay; only the ignition switch and fuse 6 on a circuit with the tail light. (it's not acting up as well?). The instrument bulbs in the white face Veglias have a reputation for loosing their ground through their sockets. Search for the fix in Tech Topics (it's not that hard to take care of).

 

Still, the relays are a good idea.

 

In short: fresh battery, new relays, clean connectors, RedLine fluids, tune-up from the TPS thread pinned on the Tech Topics forum - great garage project for a Kansas winter! Then, the more you run it the happier your electrons will be!

 

Compared to the Hondas, I expect you will "get to know" this *other* bike better!

[David L]

***Update****

 

This past weekend I finally got a chance to fully disassemble it all and have a look. I found several "problems" that have been corrected. The first was a bad ground wire on the tachometer side of the dash. There is a long threaded bolt that was bottomed out leaving the ground wire loose. A couple small washers and it was fixed. The dash now lights up incredibly bright compared to before. The second was the turn signal dash light not working. It was a loose bulb, just like the neutral light bulb. No corrosion at all, just really weak design on how the bulb connects into a rubber socket with no real pressure holding it together unlike most metal car sockets. Everything worked great for the last week, but now the neutral light won't come on again, so you have to bring up the kickstand to start it every time even though it's in neutral, or what appears to be neutral. I haven't had a chance to look at the wiring diagram to see if there is a "neutral indicator switch" somewhere that could be bad, as the kickstand switch has nothing to do with that problem after looking it over, the kickstand switch kills it, as it should, when the kickstand it down.

[Tom M]

The neutral switch is screwed into the shifter plate below the starter. It has a single wire running to it with a rubber boot on the end and a flimsy connector inside the boot. If you only see a brass post down there the wire has fallen off. If so pinch the connector a bit with some pliers before putting it back on. The switch itself can fail too (mine did). It's easy but not cheap to replace. Gearbox fluid will come out of the hole if you remove the switch so have something handy to plug the hole if you do remove the switch.

 

Hope this helps...