possible timing cover leak

[badge502]

I just picked up this LeMans... Neat bike, but based on my research here on this website, looks like I might be suffering a blown timing cover gasket... Looks like the previous owner did a bang up job of trying to fix it himself... Is that what a blown timing cover gasket looks like? Its just seeping enough oil to coat my right boot after about 100 miles. Im not a very good mechanic, but I can do some stuff. Im not sure this is within my paygrade.

 

 

A little closer...

[Guest ratchethack]

Hmm. Not sure how many bodge points the resident Bodger Boys would award this one, but on the International Bodgery Scale, I reckon it'd be "up there". . .

 

It's not a "serious" thing to replace the gasket, but then, if you're not handy with such things, it might be something to hire a Pro to do -- IF you know of a good one, hopefully with solid Guzzi experience (though not necessary). One option is to replace the crank seal while you're in there.

 

I had my timing chest open to replace the chain tensioner a few years back, and replaced the gasket with a "light" application of silicone gasket sealant. Not a weep, nor a seep since. Since the original crank seal was in pristine shape, I kept the new crank seal I'd ordered "just in case" I needed it, for a spare.

 

Good luck. Need any help on a DIY, the best you're gonna get is right here on this Forum.

[belfastguzzi]

It's the classic spot that the cover leaks from.

 

Looks like the repair has been done with plastic metal. That stuff doesn't work in this situation. I'd scrape /prise it all off. The gasket could be changed, but I sealed the leaking joint on mine externally and the repair worked perfectly. Thoroughly clean the area and then try sealing it with silicone type sealer, preferably black. It worked for me. I'll put in a new gasket... sometime.

 

It does depend exactly where your leak is though.

If it is just a blown gasket, the silicone sealer should work. This a a bad, weak area of the case though. If it is actually cracked, close to the support bracket, unfortunately the solution will require a new timing cover. Hopefully it's just the gasket though. Take that plastic steel off so that you can determine where the leak is.

[gstallons]

when this goes back together I would recommend Hylomar ro K&W gasket sealer.

These are the best products for reassembly if you do not like assembling with a dry gasket. I had one bad experience with silicone sealer on both sides of a gasket.It allowed (over time) the gasket to slide out of the mating surfaces and cause TROUBLE. Silicone sealant on the corners only.

[belfastguzzi]

There should be pics on the forum here somewhere of the sealant repair to the joint – the one that works.

 

This is the one that doesn't work: the cracked case. Your leak is around this area?

 

Timing chest cover is cracked in the weak spot by the support bracket:

 

Oil seeping from the crack:

 

The crack, through from the bolt hole to joint. This is a REALLY bad design point and this area is so stressed that glue is no good to keep a seal.

[badge502]

It's the classic spot that the cover leaks from.

 

Looks like the repair has been done with plastic metal. That stuff doesn't work in this situation. I'd scrape /prise it all off. The gasket could be changed, but I sealed the leaking joint on mine externally and the repair worked perfectly. Thoroughly clean the area and then try sealing it with silicone type sealer, preferably black. It worked for me. I'll put in a new gasket... sometime.

 

It does depend exactly where your leak is though.

If it is just a blown gasket, the silicone sealer should work. This a a bad, weak area of the case though. If it is actually cracked, close to the support bracket, unfortunately the solution will require a new timing cover. Hopefully it's just the gasket though. Take that plastic steel off so that you can determine where the leak is.

 

This sealant stuff he used looks almost rubbery... Any recommendations on a cleaner/degreaser?

 

On that first picture, see how that sheen of oil is going forward of the bead of goop and covering the timing cover? How's that work? I would think it would be going towards the rear wheel more, due to the wind direction... The timing cover looks like it is "sweating" oul...

[belfastguzzi]

This sealant stuff he used looks almost rubbery... Any recommendations on a cleaner/degreaser?

 

On that first picture, see how that sheen of oil is going forward of the bead of goop and covering the timing cover? How's that work? I would think it would be going towards the rear wheel more, due to the wind direction... The timing cover looks like it is "sweating" oul...

 

Can't tell for sure, from photos, but to me it looks like 'plastic steel' epoxy. Some makes are a bit rubbery, especially if not mixed correctly. It needs to come off.

 

The oil will creep around the area, but the danger is that your case is actually cracked, so it is leaking from the forward area of the case as well as the joint. The broken case will pull the joint open as well as leaking from the crack.

That is possible, but the blown gasket scenario is much more common and more likely.

[belfastguzzi]

On cleaning:

use a knife, paint scraper etc to lift the stuff off. Clean up with small grinder, 'sand paper', wet & dry paper etc – whatever you have. Disperse and clean away the oil with a spray solvent such as carb cleaner, brake cleaner...

[badge502]

Can't tell for sure, from photos, but to me it looks like 'plastic steel' epoxy. Some makes are a bit rubbery, especially if not mixed correctly. It needs to come off.

 

The oil will creep around the area, but the danger is that your case is actually cracked, so it is leaking from the forward area of the case as well as the joint. The broken case will pull the joint open as well as leaking from the crack.

That is possible, but the blown gasket scenario is much more common and more likely.

 

Like I said, Im not a mechanic... but that "broken case" talk has to stop now...

[belfastguzzi]

Another thread for reference: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...ealant&st=0

 

Also http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...ealant&st=0

 

There will be more around the place.

 

Here's the external repair that does work. It's in blue Hylomar instant gasket type stuff, to show where it is.

I then covered it in black silicone and once it is rubbed in and a bit of dust and dirt covers it, you wouldn't see it if you didn't know it was there. Best just to use black sealant from the start.

[Dan M]

That is one sloppy gray silicone job. I think Ratchet once referred to such work as bathtub caulking. Fitting analogy.

The cover job is not difficult. Just take your time. If you are unsure of yourself, take pictures as you go so you have a reference. Plenty of people here to walk you through if you run into trouble.

Hylomar or silicone is OK, just be neat. Too much and you will push out as Gene describes. I favor a light spray of Permatex High-Tack on the gasket and spotless mating surfaces.

Any brake cleaner will clean up the mess.

[belfastguzzi]

That is one sloppy gray silicone job. I think Ratchet once referred to such work as bathtub caulking.

It still looks like poorly applied epoxy to me – partly from the look of it and partly from the way that it has split along the joint line.

Silicone sealant DOES work. It's quick and easy. Which is a good thing.

[badge502]

It still looks like poorly applied epoxy to me – partly from the look of it and partly from the way that it has split along the joint line.

Silicone sealant DOES work. It's quick and easy. Which is a good thing.

 

Ill start on it Friday, and take pictures as I go... So clean the heck out of it, use sandpaper, whatever it takes to get all the grey crap off, along with the awesome black engine paint, then clean it up GOOD using carb or brake cleaner, then a THIN coat of black silicone sealant... Any referals on which sealant?

 

I dont really want to ask, but I guess I will, how would I know if the case is cracked? Will it be obvious? Is there going to be a hole somewhere? Or, will it just keep on seeping oil? Right now, its just seeping oil. When it is parked it doesnt even leave an oily spot on the floor... Although when Im rolling along, after about an hour, I get a free boot oiling.

[emry]

After failed attempts with the OEM gasket I used Yamabond 4 or maybe Hylomar. It has been so long I really don't remember, should be in a post somewheres around here. I did pull the cover to clean the surface and get the crap power/paint out of the thread holes. Hasn't leaked since and that has been 6 or so years. If I recall the most daunting task for the non-mechnical is removing the stator. If you choose to do this yourself get an extra front crank seal, they are delicate and easy to nick, but cheap to buy.

[belfastguzzi]

Ill start on it Friday, and take pictures as I go... So clean the heck out of it, use sandpaper, whatever it takes to get all the grey crap off, along with the awesome black engine paint, then clean it up GOOD using carb or brake cleaner, then a THIN coat of black silicone sealant... Any referals on which sealant?

 

I dont really want to ask, but I guess I will, how would I know if the case is cracked? Will it be obvious?

What year is it? 2002 by any chance? A bad year for V.11s <_>

 

Part of the benefit of cleaning it back to shiny metal is that you'll see where it is leaking. If it is not obvious once you've cleaned it, start the engine... and observe.

 

If there is no crack and it's just the gasket/joint leak, you might even see some torn gasket sticking out.

The best answer is to put a new gasket in, but in my view there is nothing to lose by trying the sealant fix and if you find that it works – great! You're back on the road immediately. If it doesn't, you've done no harm and you can go ahead and order the gasket etc.

 

I don't know what the commonly available brands are in USA.

Hylomar?

Loctite does black.

Permatex?

 

It'll say stuff like, stays flexible, oil resistant/oil contact, high temperature: but it doesn't need to be anything really specialist.

Here's a Loctite one:

Loctite 5910 Premium Silicone Black Gasket Maker/Sealer 80ml forms a flexible silicon seal and is suitable for use on valve covers, oil pans, intake manifold end seals, timing covers, transmission pans.

 

FEATURES & BENEFITS

For flanges with permanent oil contact

Can be used for metal, plastic and painted parts

Low odour

Non-corrosive

Meets performance specs of OE silicone gaskets

Temperature resistance: -55°C to 250°C intermittent

 

Rub it well into the area and build up a bit of thickness. Don't leave it too thin. You could put a thin-ish layer on, let it dry/firm up a bit; then put some more on. You can get a smooth finish by wetting your finger. If it's not good, just take it off and do it again.

Let it cure before running the engine.