engine hot = start problems

[al_roethlisberger]

Since pinging is basically early detonation... sure, the heat could exacerbate the problem.

 

My bike pings every once in a while under hard acceleration, but it's a rarity, and it's only when I really open the throttle under load.

 

I still haven't picked up the tape I mention above, and now that it's cooling down... I probably have less incentive ... but I'll probably get it later.

 

Winter usually means bike tinkering for me anyway, so we'll see what I do.

 

al

[Guest Brent]

The "vapor lock club" now has one more member.

 

Luckily I was at my dealer's when it happened, so they were able to confirm quickly what the problem was. They suspect the fuel pump more than the fuel lines because of the placement and protection of the lines. In either case, they're contacting MG to get a permanent solution to this problem.

[al_roethlisberger]

Brent,

 

Sorry to hear you had the "problem" , but I am glad to hear that it happened to you actually *AT* a dealer, as MG has basically pretended this condition doesn't exist... yet they've mysteriously reengineered all 2003 bikes with the fuel-pump inside the tank

 

While I don't want a pump in my tank(to further decrease capacity/range) I think MG should consider this a recall issue and design a heat-shield(or something) for this condition and take care of it free-of-charge for all pre-2003 owners. Considering the number of V11 Sport/LeMans owners that have experienced this, I would think we have a case to press MG for a real solution.

 

Maybe this example where a dealer actually saw the condition will spur some honest interest, so I'll be very interested to hear what they tell you and your dealer Brent. Please keep us informed.

 

If not, perhaps we need a poll/petition to be sent to MG, especially if 'endorsed' by any V11 Sport/LeMans owner we can find that "happens to be an attorney" .....hint hint... any volunteers?? You can probably deduct it from your taxes since it would be pro-bono

 

thx!

al

[callison]

There is an acknowledged solution. Put the fuel pump in the tank, same as in a car. 2003 models have that and I suspect that is why the 2003 models do not have a tank pad. They needed to recoup some of the volume lost to the pump. If you have a couple of thousand dollars to throw at your bike, you can do the same thing. I think I would trade up to the LeMans Corsa before I'd do that though.

[Guest Brent]

Why should I (or anyone) need to spend money correcting this design flaw or trading up to a newer bike? After all, my bike IS NEW! I consider this to be a severe problem that MG, not ME, needs to resolve. If that means that MG needs to fit our bikes with the newer design (pump in tank, with larger tank--no pad), then fine. I'd rather they do this than band-aid the problem with a heat shield, if this is even possible.

 

I'll keep everyone informed of what my dealer finds out, but in the mean time it may help if MG hears from others, either directly or through dealers. (Now, where did I put that lemon-law info?)

 

p.s., can someone point out to me where the fuel pump is on the 2002 LeMans?

[RichMaund]

Some of us have never experienced this problem. It would be unfair to MG to call it an across the board problem. Simple solutions like wrapped insulative tape are a legitimate solution if it is caused by heating of the suction line. I like that idea myself and will probably do it as a preventive measure next time I have the tank off.

My bike had the usual bugs for a 2000 V11S when new. It has done nothing but get better as I have racked up the miles. Pushing 10k now and I will soon be tire shopping and getting my wheels done in red powdercoat to "finish" the bike. I ran up 60 miles on it today just joy riding and running errands. Runs like a dream. The suction tubing for my fuel pump is just bare rubber tubing. I had to change it when the original electric petcock weeped. Fuel got down into the reinforcement threads and the line swelled up. After I changed it, I didn't bother putting the SS braided cover back on. Seemed like a useless decoration at the time.

I have ridden it on 100 degree days when it was over 115 in the sun. No problems. I have run it through frog drowning rain storms. No problem except I blasted the paint off the fronts of my valve covers.

When a bike is new and tight, and many MG's come VERY "tight" from the factory, it generates more heat than a well broken in engine.

I would suggest that perhaps riding the snot out of it for short bursts and gradually working your way up to full blown nose riding is what most MG's need! I'm only half kidding here. When my last MG, a 1997 Cali 1100, was new it was tight as a shrunken hatband. It was 7k miles before it would find neutral on the first try. It would shudder and bog below 4k rpm. tightest damn Guzzi I had ever owned. By 10k miles it was really good. By 20k, it was marvelous. My 2000 V11S didn't have as pronouced a tightness as that bike did. But it has again proven to me that Guzzi's simply need more break-in than any other bike I know of. The bikes DO reward a patient owner in time!

[Guest Brent]

Until two days ago, I didn't think that I had the problem either, since I've been riding around in 90 degree heat since buying the bike earlier this month and hadn't had a problem (except the relay). (Though, I do believe you, Rich, when you say that you don't have the problem.) I guess that until last Friday I've been letting the bike sit long enough after heating up to allow enough heat to dissipate, which must take at least 45 minutes, even in the shade. So until this problem is fixed, I'll have to plan to park at least this long when I stop somewhere after a long-ish ride.

 

By the way, I was able to recreate the problem today. I took a 1.5 hour drive in 90 degree heat on local (i.e., not highway) roads (total 60 miles), then parked the bike in my garage. I waited 10 minutes, then started the bike. It stumbled badly then quit. I then waited another 30 minutes and tried again. It ran even worse.

[Guest ivan]

 

Hello all V11Sport owners,

 

The engine has run now 25.000km and the start problem is still my phantom. My official MG dealer has checked again (free of charge) all parts from fuel pump up to relais-connections (below saddle). He did not find anything. After that maintenance the bike started well during 2 weeks.

The fuel pomp had again it's "bad manors" after 2weeks. My dealer has meanwhile spoken with a Germam MG tuner (Aachen). The relais which is responsible for the fuel pump has other two functions and that is to much.

So, the whole relais system should be adjusted but the MG factory will not take any action. So, V11 owners and MG dealers are #@$&@#@! We have to help eachother. My MG dealer will look further into this problem this winter.

Fingers crossed!

Best regards

Ivan Priem (Antwerp, Belgium)

[al_roethlisberger]

Rich, et al .....

 

With all due respect, while I am sure issues such as break-in can affect performance, this issue, etc... and by whatever fortune has smiled upon many(perhaps most) V11 Sport/LeMans/Scura owners that they haven't encountered this "vapor lock" problem... a significant(and by that I mean too many) owners have. I know we've all seen this very question/issue posed too many times on the MG topica list and forums like this for it to just be a fluke.

 

In fact, *I* personally discounted this issue for months to owners not properly relocating the supply hose, emissions, tank-suck, etc... or otherwise not taking the right/recommended precautions.... until it happened to my bike, which had taken all of those considerations into account already.

 

Now, in my case, to be fair: it was a very hot day(100+ degrees) and we had just climbed up to an overlook of Yosemite valley and Half Dome... so it was probably the worst of circumstances. However, it is still a design issue that at best is an inconvenience, and at worst could strand someone for a while. It certainly is an issue that a modern fuel-injection system on a $10k+ bike should not exhibit, and then expect the owner to address out of his own pocket. It's certainly not wear-and-tear =P

 

In my opinion, this should be addressed ASAP by MG with a service bulletin, recall, or free repair. If they've discovered that the only real fix is to relocate the fuel-pump, so-be-it, but they need to fix all of our bikes too... as the redesign is in my humble opinion, an acknowledgement of the problem on MG's part.

 

I'd like to see this addressed by MGNA... somehow... not just pretending it doesn't exist. Honestly, we shouldn't have to deal with this on 21st century bikes, especially since the model is 3+ years into its evoluition.

 

I hope this doesn't come across as rude or too irritated, and I mean no disrespect to Rich and those that have not had the misfortune to experience this defect, but after seeing far too many posts on this subject, and noting the new fuel-pump design... MG should support a fix for current owners trying to track down this elusive and intermittent problem(which is the worst kind). *sigh*

 

al

[RichMaund]

Al

No offense taken! I would never do that. Especially not in a forum as good as this one! I'm sorry to hear it's a problem for so many riders. Since in many of the cases it has come on after the bike has accrued some miles, I would say the fuel pump itself may be suspect! That, or the regulator. Time to rig in a pressure guage and ride the bike and try to recreate the hot conditions and monitor fuel pressure. If vapor bubbles are forming and the pump cavitates, the pressure irregularities will show up on the gauge. A PITA to be sure. But I won't hold my breath waiting on MGNA to ever do anything. I'm afraid I have little respect for the way they handle much of their business. It's up to the owners and Dealers to solve everything. Realistically, this is where the solutions will have to come from since MGNA leads a very rich "pretend" life. ie; they usually pretend problems don't exist.

[Guest Brent]

Yesterday I found out from my dealer that MG decided to dismiss my problem as a fluke since my bike already has the 'vapor lock fix' (i.e., re-routed fuel lines). If I had the problem only the one time, I would also be willing to call it a fluke and hope for the best. But since I've been able to recreate the problem two more times (out of two attempts), I'm not willing to do this, and thankfully neither is my dealer--now that they know I'm able to recreate the problem. Maybe I don't have the original vapor lock issue, or maybe what MG thought was the problem (fuel lines too close to the heads) wasn't actually the problem and rerouting the lines provided only moderate relief. I hope to know soon. I also hope that MG is hearing from everyone that has experienced this problem, so that they don't think this is a one-bike issue.

[Guest ivan]

Hi,

 

I've posted this email from the begin, my MG-dealer in Belgium will work this problem out during winter. Vapor lock is not an issue, because the problem appears as well when the engine is cold. My dealer points in the relais(fuse) direction. The relais which is responsible for the fuel pomp has some other functions and this could be it. It is true that you can solve this problem by switching the egnitionkey several times until you can hear the pump. If you hold your finger on the fuel line you will feel the pressure when it works. Start again and iyou can start.

This is not a solution but at least you can drive.

 

This is indeed not a one of problem, the V11 forum of Germany have similar emails.

 

Best regards,

Ivan Priem

Belgium, Antwerp

V11 Sport 2000

[jtucker]

Hi Ivan,

 

Yes, it does sound like you are experiencing a relay problem. However, I don't think this is the root of everyones problems. For example, my fuel pump always works, and my bike will start OK when hot. However, about 10 seconds after starting, the motor will sputter and die, as if it has run out of fuel. Relay is not a problem, in my case.

 

Good to hear that you could figure out your problem.

 

__Jason

00 M900Dark

00 V11 Sport