V11 sport transmission locked up

[pete roper]

If you think the failure is caused by the misalignment, fine.

I don't.

 

I specifically said in an earlier post that I didn't think that this particular failure looked like it was caused by misalignment. But misalignment wouldn't of helped the situation and can and does cause serious damage. Thassall.

 

Pete

[guzzi323]

The misalignment will cause constant loading and unloading of the shafts but a case failure isn't waht I'd expect. Usually it is things like the cages of the bearings that will fail in these circumstances. In this case I have no brilliant ideas what caused the failure. Imperfect casting would seem the obvious one but it looks to me to be simple bad luck rather than anything sheetable home to a definite 'Mechanical' cause.

 

And yes. I'd suggest it would be cheaper to look for a 2nd hand transmission than to fart about with that one.

 

Pete

Pete,

For the record the bearing that sits where the case is broken is completely f@#&ked. There's a ball from it wedged between the shaft and the hole in the case.

I think it's quite possible the bearing is what took out the case.

 

johnk

[Dan M]

I specifically said in an earlier post that I didn't think that this particular failure looked like it was caused by misalignment. But misalignment wouldn't of helped the situation and can and does cause serious damage. Thassall.

 

Pete

 

Anytime drive-shaft yokes are out of phase a pretty substantial vibration will occur. I've seen it many times on trucks with two piece drive-shafts. If someone puts it together wrong it will vibrate enough to be felt through out the vehicle. I have to think the related bearings (transmission and rear end) are taking a beating.

[guzzi323]

Anytime drive-shaft yokes are out of phase a pretty substantial vibration will occur. I've seen it many times on trucks with two piece drive-shafts. If someone puts it together wrong it will vibrate enough to be felt through out the vehicle. I have to think the related bearings (transmission and rear end) are taking a beating.

What about when they are out of phase to the degree shown here. This is as close as I can get with my driveshaft.

 

It's not perfect but would you think this is good enough?

 

Thx,

johnk

[Paul Minnaert]

In your picture it doent look in line, moving it half a turn doesn't work? I don't know the number of teeth.

[docc]

But where are the marks? Are they now aligned?

[pete roper]

In your picture it doent look in line, moving it half a turn doesn't work? I don't know the number of teeth.

 

20 spline on the V11 I belive. 10 spline on the Sports etc. with the five speed box.

 

It should be able to be aligned pretty much exactly. Try just turning it a spline at a time and see if you can get it right? Makes you wonder if it isn't a mismatched front and rear?

 

Pete

[guzzi323]

20 spline on the V11 I belive. 10 spline on the Sports etc. with the five speed box.

 

It should be able to be aligned pretty much exactly. Try just turning it a spline at a time and see if you can get it right? Makes you wonder if it isn't a mismatched front and rear?

 

Pete

That's as good as it gets. That side view corresponds with this view of the alignment marks.

It's a little hard to see but the reference mark on the right side is still a little off.

They're close but in no case am I able to line up the paint marks or the yokes.

If I could line up the marks I'm pretty certain the yokes would be lined up as well.

 

I take it at least some of you would recommend a driveshaft purchase as well?

[gstallons]

Forget the paint marks for now. Can you slide the shaft apart and rotate one half of the shaft 1/2 turn and reassemble the driveshaft to see if it aligns any better?

Do you know anything about the history of the bike? If you cannot get this to align correctly, it mighy be time for another driveshaft.

BTW, is there a machine shop nearby you can take this to before you reinstall it?

[guzzi323]

Forget the paint marks for now. Can you slide the shaft apart and rotate one half of the shaft 1/2 turn and reassemble the driveshaft to see if it aligns any better?

Do you know anything about the history of the bike? If you cannot get this to align correctly, it mighy be time for another driveshaft.

BTW, is there a machine shop nearby you can take this to before you reinstall it?

The way it is in those last 2 pictures is as good as it gets for yoke alignment.

It didn't look all that good to me which was why I was asking about the driveshaft.

I've owed the bike since new but I'm guessing it's not worth my time asking Guzzi for a free driveshaft (let alone transmission).

 

I know of many machine shops, are you thinking they might be able to cut and weld the driveshaft?

That never would have occurred to me. The u-joints do feel great.

 

johnk

[gstallons]

I am afraid Guzzi wouldn't give you a decal much less a driveshaft. Please do take it to a machine shop or driveshaft rebuilder and see what they can do and how much?

[guzzi323]

Well I took the driveshaft to a machine shop that deals with such things and they felt it was fine.

I've now placed a much easier to read alignment mark on it.

 

I got the bike back together over the weekend and it all seems good.

I just need to get over my transmission induced PTSD and learn to relax again and enjoy riding it.

This morning's commute had me paranoid over any little noise or vibration, whether real or imagined, I came across.

 

Reminded me of of the days riding my old RD400F.

The joys of motorcycling waiting for the engine to seize. Those were the good old days, eh?

 

Thank you all for your help.

 

johnk

[The Monkey]

Sounds good or does it? In the first position the bearing made it 65k, now that you've reduced the disparity in Trunnion alignment it may go even further. The fact that there still is disparity means a lateral load will be produced and that must be taken up somewhere- (the bearing in the transmission). We use the same initial drive principal on one of the boats I run, had a tremor I could only feel from the wheelhouse, not aft and not in the engine room. True the shafts, dynamically balance the props 48" diameter 4 blade, Trunnion alignment is spot on between engine and transmission. Still this tremor persisted, last fall on drydock we checked alignment betwixt transmission and final shaft. Bingo one was out .017". Not a lot? Close enough? Its a $60k transmission a tow bill might cost $250k. If someone happens to be standing near when it goes-definite injury. We raise the gear, hog out titanium bed plates and get within .004" each side. Tremor gone. Think of your bike transmission, a delicate instrument in comparison but the theory has to apply here as well even more so. Those Trunnions should match perfectly, not closely. You are transmitting power, causes of excess load have to be eliminated.

Don't mean to spook you dude but I too have brought motorcylces sliding to a stop on the roadside myself due to transmission lock (not guzzi) and as you know you are stuck within the laws of physics and can pretty much only go in your current trajectory. If that happens on the Ridge run tween Alices restaurant and Los Gatos you don't get much time to decide whether or not it can be ridden out or if its time to step off. Its such an easy fix, do it right, don't ride in trepidation or on the advice "close enough". No reason to fear the machine, just ensure it is correct 100%, then ride it like ya stole it. Cheers

[guzzi323]

Hmmm. To be honest I wasn't entirely satisfied with my experience at that machine shop but they're supposed to know about these things (at least they're supposed to know more than me) so I went with what they said.

I guess I'll ask around for some more local shop references what them look at it.

That last machine shop was recommended though. It's hard to know who to trust, you know?

 

Thank you for your input.

 

johnk

[docc]

How could a shaft's alignment marks have gotten off a half tooth? Twisted somehow?