Yet another lube question

[billsv11]

Dont shoot me down for this but I just changed my oil in my v11 and used the Wally World (Supertech), and i have to concur it is much easier to just drop the pan. Plus you get to clean out any gunk and the mesh filter element. I am actually a fan of these filters, i have used them for some time (10k mi) on my Honda rc51. My father has used these for years and has over 35k mi on his Honda superhawk (super chicken) with no problems. I do however need to keep a few gaskets on hand, I just so happened to get lucky this last time.

[Steve G.]

So that's what that loose nut in the tool kit is for, I have been puzzling over that.

Thanks for the tip

Roy

Hi Roy,

There's no tool accessory in the factory tool kit to remove the oil filter access port, unless the previous owner has thrown one in.

 

Steve

[Steve G.]

So, how tight do we need to get this filter? In all my normal experiences with oil filters, I just used to get them hand tight. All manuals and other nomenclature states not to use a tool in order to further tighten the filter... Why is this, and why do the filters tend to back out in a Guzzi?

 

I make mine tight enough that my special furl oil filter wrench cannot get it to turn if I try to remove it through the port hole.

Why do they come loose?? These engine shake.

 

Steve

[Steve G.]

Bob,

When you drop the pan, do you change the gasket each time?

What do you use in the way of gasket cement?

BTW, good picture of the hose clamp, I will follow the example.

Thanks

Roy

 

When you take the pan off, if you are carefull, you can reuse the gasket a few times, as I have. I bought one, but ended up breaking the bloody thing riding home from British Italian. Don't use any gasket sealer, use thick oil or greae only. Mine still doesn't leak after 10 yrs and 10 oil changes. Like the other lads, I've given up on removing the filter port hole.

One caution when removing the pan. The rear oil line connected to the back of the pan, be carefull with that, the end connection has been known to crack if overtightened or tightened crooked.

 

Steve

[guzzimeister]

Bob,

When you drop the pan, do you change the gasket each time?

What do you use in the way of gasket cement?

BTW, good picture of the hose clamp, I will follow the example.

Thanks

Roy

 

 

Hi Roy- 3 oil changes for me. Changed gasket once. I only coated it with oil. I have not had leaks.

 

Bob

My two hap'orth:

 

- filter is off a Fiat Panda, common car in Europe

- if I would put an unbranded filter in my car I would put it in my bike. I wouldn't blow my car up either

- for the UK people Halfords ref HOF218

- it just has to be the same dia to get the oil flow, have the same fitting, and have a pressure relief valve in the middle. That said you can use anything that fits

- why don't I use UFI? Too expensive, no better than a decent unbranded, and only available from MG dealers

- any BMW filter removal tool fits in the manhole, cost £10. Contracting leg types do not, and the pressed steel hex types are often too flimsy to grip the filter properly, necessitating removal of the sump. Why wouldn't I remove the sump? Because MG provided a half decent solution which works OK

- why wouldn't I tighten the filter up tight? Because heat often bakes the rubber seal to the engine and the filter, and this can be very hard to undo. First filter change on mine, as tightened up by Luigi, involved me prising off the jagged remnants of a filter from the stub, after a contracting leg filter tool had crushed it, it was really that tight

- I follow car mechnaic wisdom, which is hand tight plus 1/4 to a 1/3 by spanner. Got to 47K without issues..

- if you have no 27a/f nut or the correct tool, knocking it round with a bit of hardwood against the ribs, and a soft mallet works in an emergency

 

That's my contribution to the teasure trove of wisdom. Always fascinated to read the different approaches to the same issue, usually all of them right but from different perspectives. Anyway sun's out and I'm off.

 

Cheers

 

Guzz

[Bjor]

 

- why wouldn't I tighten the filter up tight? Because heat often bakes the rubber seal to the engine and the filter, and this can be very hard to undo. First filter change on mine, as tightened up by Luigi, involved me prising off the jagged remnants of a filter from the stub, after a contracting leg filter tool had crushed it, it was really that tight

 

 

On the first V11 I bought, I could not remove the oil filter at all. I tried using a chain wrench, but just twisted the filter. The solution was a drill and a Dremel. Point is not to use too much power, and do not forget a thin layer of oil on the seal!

 

When it comes to using cheaper filters, I have heard of cases where paint has come off the filter body, leaving dangerous flakes in the oil... But that was in the old days, -I guess the quality of modern filters is better

[gstallons]

I look at filters much as I would a parachute. You could buy 2 or 3 cheap parachutes for the price of an expensive one .

 

Think about the saaaavvvviiiiiiiiiinnnnnggggs!

[ponti_33609]

Someone long ago cut a bunch up and there is a post here somewhere. As I recall, the only thing significant was that the Fram's were very poorly constructed. I think the others were all quite similar and the Walmart brand was actually a Champion Labs filter. I do not think the outcome lead you down the path that UFI was superior. Anyone know where that old thread is?

 

Bob

[raz]

http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/

 

Same as a PDF: http://www.leroybeal.net/motorcycles/silverwing/articles/oil-filters/Motorcycle%2520oil%2520filters%2520exposed.pdf

[billsv11]

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterXRef.html. Very useful page

[luhbo]

My two hap'orth:

 

- filter is off a Fiat Panda, common car in Europe

...

...

- I follow car mechnaic wisdom, which is hand tight plus 1/4 to a 1/3 by spanner. Got to 47K without issues..

- if you have no 27a/f nut or the correct tool, knocking it round with a bit of hardwood against the ribs, and a soft mallet works in an emergency

...

...

 

THX. I had the pan down only once in 100.000km - didn't find anything interesting in it. I remove the manhole cover using the rear axle nut BTW.

 

Hubert

[dhansen]

Another vote for dropping the pan and adding the hose clamp just in case. There have been more than a few unexplained filter self removals that ended in ruined engines.

 

I always keep an extra pan gasket hanging on the wall if needed. I do not use any gasket seal other than a good coating of oil. Works for me.

[Greg Field]

Just this week, I got a call from a guy who lives in Arizona, about his filter backing off. He had come up to Seattle in September, While visiting our shop, he told me he had just bought a Coppa Italia. I told him the story of another Coppa Italia in his town that lost an engine after a filter installed by a dealer spun off. He listened to the story, bought a hose clamp, went home, and kept riding his bike. When it was time for the next oil change, he removed the sump to get at the filter and found that the filter was two or three threads from falling off. He was very lucky to have caught it in time.

[The Monkey]

Someone long ago cut a bunch up and there is a post here somewhere. As I recall, the only thing significant was that the Fram's were very poorly constructed. I think the others were all quite similar and the Walmart brand was actually a Champion Labs filter. I do not think the outcome lead you down the path that UFI was superior. Anyone know where that old thread is?

 

Bob

 

 

The info I derive from the posted links is that the UFI has a much larger filter. To me that means the UFI will filter longer than the competition. Fine to use another type of filter if you are changing it frequently, I run both filter and oil for 10,000km and consider the difference enough to pay the money for the UFI. I would be changing both at 5000km with one of the other filters fitted. That said, the mileage I do is 90% tour oriented, when that V11 is fired up it goes sun up to sun down, which is much less demand on the oil than someone commuting. Going to drop the sump this change and put in one of those "reusable" silicone gaskets, see how that works re longevity.

[Jamie]

I remember my days as an air cooled VW head, folks who knew and loved these engines never worried a bit about oil filtration (these engines did not have one, just a screen) because the German engineers knew that the oil breather hooked up before the carb would clean the air so thoroughly, there were no thoughts of contamination and/or engine failure. I guess they were correct, as the upright air cooled Vee Dub engine was one of the most successful, trouble free, longest lasting engine designs on the planet. So there must be something said about keeping our air filters clean in the same breath as oil filtration... As Frank Zappa used to say, "...information is not knowledge, knowledge is not intelligence.." and so it goes, boys.