Simple Wiring Schematic

[Kiwi_Roy]

Roy,

 

What changed that was "major?"

 

(I keep downloading/printing and and adding to my Workshop Manual.)

I changed the style of the relay base and the pins are arranged as you look at it on the bike.

(at least on mine, its possible some bikes may have the wires swapped around

I added the charging circuit.

Show the dual coil arrangement in starter solenoid

Tried to show which negatives are wired back to battery and which ones go through engine or frame.

Cheers

Roy

[Dadparent]

Hello Roy,

 

Thank you so much for your work and information. I hav bought a v11 LM 2002 and it won't start. I thought I study first and then I find this. Great.

[Dadparent]

Hello.here I'm again.  First of all sorry for my English, I'm a Dutchman.

As I wrote earlier I studied the schemes before diagnosing. And so I found a corroded connection to the startmotor , I cleaned it and everything worked fine. But 30 minutes later the V11 refused to start (motor) again. I measured the connection cable to the starter motor with the cable off  and it had 12,4 V with a battery of 12,45 (it's cold now). So I thought it is OK. Then I plugged the cable back on the starter motor and the the voltage on the starterclamb (starter refused to run) came up  somewhere between 5 and 9 V. And after 5 or 10 sec's the fuse was blown . This was accordingly my original problem. Startingbutton on  for 5 sec no starting but the fuse went blown.

 

But then I take a normal wire direct from battery tot startermotorconnection. The starter motor was turning fine and the engine was running almost directly. And wonder o wonder after this, now starting with the starting button works as new. (but for how long?).

 

It  irritates me that I can't explain why I have the voltage  so much down and the fuse blown. Is this a short-circuit in one of those famous black relais? I switched the relais one to another  a couple of times, but there is no difference in my problem.

 

I know there is quit a lot written about this item and I read a lot of them. But they did not help me so far to explain my problem.

 

Thank you for helping.

[bbolesaz]

Dadparent, I'm dealing with a nearly identical situation on my Scura.  On mine, I'm sure it's the key switch. BTW, KiwiRoy's diagrams are for early models. My 2002, the starting circuit is different.  If you can find the wiring diagram on line for the 2004 bike, that seems to be very close. I have noticed some wiring color differences.

 

See

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19531&p=230662

[JRD]

Hi guys. I would suggest you read up on Startus interruptus here on this forum as well as over on the Wild Guzzi Forum, lots of information about electrical gremlins with these bikes.

I would also recommend checking all your ground connections. Don't fret these are minor problems and we will be lad to help you work thru them.

Dad parent, welcome to the forum

[Dadparent]

Dadparent, I'm dealing with a nearly identical situation on my Scura.  On mine, I'm sure it's the key switch. BTW, KiwiRoy's diagrams are for early models. My 2002, the starting circuit is different.  If you can find the wiring diagram on line for the 2004 bike, that seems to be very close. I have noticed some wiring color differences.

 

See

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19531&p=230662

Thanks bbolesaz,

 

The main difference is the headlight arrangement I think. How did you analyze it is the key switch ? It is in the beginning of the startcircuit and it has nu ground connection by itself. In my case it is fuse F5. Is it wrong to think that only and only relais R1 and the circuit after that can cause the problem?  By the way I I cleaned the groundcable behind the seatlock.

 

Gr. Dirk

[bbolesaz]

If your 2002 is like my 2002, the starter solenoid current goes thru Relay #1, then over to the key switch, then back to the battery +.  If the key switch is bad, there's too much resistance thru the key switch.

[Dadparent]

If your 2002 is like my 2002, the starter solenoid current goes thru Relay #1, then over to the key switch, then back to the battery +.  If the key switch is bad, there's too much resistance thru the key switch.

Ok Thanks. But there must be a groundleak. When there is to much resistance then the current will go down and that makes the job for the fuse easier.

[bbolesaz]

Ah yes, forgot about your blown fuse.  Mine just wouldn't pull the started solenoid.

 

BTW, I re-wired my bike's starter and headlight relays away from the 2004 schematic and matched the 1999 schematic.  It now starts with AUTHORITY !  I had previously replaced the voltage regulator with the EME version, so I don't have the regulator sense on headlight issue either.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The solenoid in the starter has two coils a high current one I call the pull in coil that will draw 40 Amps

A low current one I call the hold in coil that draws about 10 Amps

 

If the resistance through the ignition switch is too high the solenoid will not draw enough current and therefore not be strong enough to engage the motor pinion with the ring gear all you will hear is a quiet click.

For example the switch might measure 0.5 Ohms so the coils pull 24 Amps, this still might not be quite enough to engage the gears (it's only half as strong as it should be) but too much for the fuse which will pop after a few seconds.

 

As soon as the solenoid can close the main contacts the current through the Pull in coil drops to zero.

 

The early VII (200, 2001) start relays were not wired through the ignition switch, they never had a problem engaging and cranking the starter but almost every other modern Guzzi is cursed. I think the VIIs switched over in late 2002 to run through the ignition switch.

If you clean the switch it will improve for a while but the long term solution is to power the start relay direct from the battery through a fuse, unfortunately this means you also have to make other arrangements for the headlight relay if you want to turn it off while cranking, the easy way is leave it on.

 

 

If your bike is having trouble cranking or blowing fuses try running a #18 hot wire from the solenoid spade connector to touch on battery positive CAUTION make sure it's out of gear and pull the clutch for good measure, I don't want to be accused of launching your bike. This will prove that the battery and starter are up to the task.

 

It may seem weird but the more current the solenoid draws the less stress is placed on the fuse, this is because it accomplishes the task much quicker (more current but for much less time), the solenoid on the new to me 07 Griso now operates 3 x as fast as it did before, all I did was beef up the solenoid wire.