New rear monoshock being installed

[scre103]

New rear shock being replaced on my v11 sport. Do the front shocks need to be adjusted as well, or should I ride first and see if any adjustments need to be made ? Could use some info from others who have had shocks replaced as to what kind of expectations I should have/ or what the installer/ dealer should be expected to do as far as bike setup. thnx

[gstallons]

You have affected the rear shock not the front forks. Leave it (unless you are rich) alone.

[gavo]

You haven't said if the spring was changed , but assuming it was I'd at least get out the tape measure and checked sag figure differance between front and rear. Also advice from the pro who revalved and respung the rear shock on one of my bikes said I should definatly at least respring the front

[GuzziMoto]

How much you weigh with gear on as well as whether the rear spring rate was increased, decreased, or stayed the same, would help.

If all else fails, check the sag. Not only should the front and rear sag about the same but there is a ratio of free sag to race sag that needs to be maintained. If you set your front sag with you on board to the correct amount and you have too little or no free sag then you need a stiffer front spring. If the opposite applies (too much free sag when the race sag is set) then you need a softer spring. Talk to your suspension guy about this. He should know all this.

[docc]

You're going to enjoy it much more if you get both the front and rear in the target sag range (the right springs and preload for your weight).

 

Plus your front forks will benefit from an oil change and, generally, lighter oil.

 

There are some really long drawn out debates on all this in the old threads, but one of the best things you can get sorted out on your Sport.

[GuzziMoto]

Also, which forks do you have? V11s have come with at least three different sets of forks. The early Marzochi's had no compression dampening as built. Turning the adjuster only effected the final inch of travel, more like an adjustable bump stop. I modded a set so they had compression dampening and have been happy with them since.

[gstallons]

Also, which forks do you have? V11s have come with at least three different sets of forks. The early Marzochi's had no compression dampening as built. Turning the adjuster only effected the final inch of travel, more like an adjustable bump stop. I modded a set so they had compression dampening and have been happy with them since.

 

 

Which early Marzocchi forks are you talking about? One style had the adjustment screw that clicked. Another style had the adjuster screw that did not click. Then there are the Ohlins that are a gold? anodized color.

[GuzziMoto]

Which early Marzocchi forks are you talking about? One style had the adjustment screw that clicked. Another style had the adjuster screw that did not click. Then there are the Ohlins that are a gold? anodized color.

It's a 2001 V11 with Marzocchi's that have adjusters that click. I don't know how many different versions of Marzocchi's Guzzi used and there may be more then two, I don't know. There could be more. I just know there are at least two.

[docc]

My 2000 clicks and has rebound on the right, compression on the left. But, it is notable, that these adjustments only affect the slow speed damping. High speed damping can only be changed with internal valving or oil viscosity. Per previous discussion, be alert to evaluating oil by CentiStokes, rather than the less sensitive SAE weights.

 

Springing and preload (sag) remains the key!

[GuzziMoto]

If your V11 has the same forks as my wifes 2001 does, which has the compression and rebound split left and right and they click, then it does not actually have compression dampening adjustment for most of the stroke. Until the forks have compressed 3/4 of the stroke or more the fork fluid does not go thru the piston but rather thru large holes in the damper tube. Until the piston goes past the holes the fluid is not forced thru the piston so there is not really dampening to speak of, and turning the adjusters only effects that last bit after the piston has gone past the holes. And unless you count those large holes as "low speed dampening" (they are not really) there is no high and low speed compression dampening. There is only no compression dampening and compression dampening. It is not a very sophisticated fork.

I went thru them pretty thoroughly a while back and even went so far as to assemble them without the springs in them to evaluate and correct the dampening. It is not something that thicker oil is going to help much.

[docc]

I understand what you mean by the aspects of damping in the fork travel. And I certainly agree it's not a very sophisticated system. I would count the "large holes" in the early travel as the high speed damping which is, as you say, not externally adjustable.

 

Winding the adjusters appears to make very little difference in practical riding.

 

Lighter oils (again, beware: not all "5wt" is the same!), and spring/sag set-up make the real day to day difference.

[GuzziMoto]

Changing the way the fork works so that it actually has compression dampening is not that hard and it is the only thing that has made an improvement aside from correct springs rate. Before doing it the fork action was to harsh which would make you think you needed lighter oil but what it was was the fork blowing through the first 3/4 of travel and then hitting the last 1/4 like a bump stop. Thinner oil was not going to help much (I guess it would make the transition smoother) and thicker oil would only make the transition worse. For me the solution has been modding the fork so that more of the oil has to go thru the valving and lighter oil for the now relevant valve stack.

Anyway, how many different types of forks have there been on V11's?

[docc]

New rear shock being replaced on my v11 sport. Do the front shocks need to be adjusted as well, or should I ride first and see if any adjustments need to be made ? Could use some info from others who have had shocks replaced as to what kind of expectations I should have/ or what the installer/ dealer should be expected to do as far as bike setup. thnx

 

Looking back to the original thread topic, it looks like discussing "adjustments to the front (fork)" would still be on topic.

 

 

 

So, GuzziMoto, how does one go about modifying the fork damping internally? Is there a thread on that somewhere that I've missed?

[Dan M]

Per previous discussion, be alert to evaluating oil by CentiStokes, rather than the less sensitive SAE weights.

 

Springing and preload (sag) remains the key!

 

Interesting link docc, thanks. I hadn't seen it previously.

 

The 2002 has a finer range of damping adjustment Marz fork than the original Sport. I believe that change started in 2002. I don't know if there were subsequent changes. While apart I was able to feel damping change without springs throughout the stroke.

[GuzziMoto]

Looking back to the original thread topic, it looks like discussing "adjustments to the front (fork)" would still be on topic.

 

 

 

So, GuzziMoto, how does one go about modifying the fork damping internally? Is there a thread on that somewhere that I've missed?

No, no thread that I am aware of. I mentioned it a couple times a while back but that was when there was a troll living under this board and when you posted something he did not agree with he ridiculed and insulted you until you gave up.

But it is pretty self explanatory when you take your forks apart. By memory (I might not have the details correct, but you should see what I mean) there are a couple bleed holes in the cartridge tube that allow the oil to escape as the piston is pushed up. These allow the oil to avoid going thru the piston so there is no real dampening until the piston is past the holes. Then as soon as the piston is past the holes the oil has to suddenly go thru the valving in the piston. That is a bad set up. All you need to do is block off one of the holes (as I remember there are two holes and I blocked off one but I could be wrong) or half of each so that some of the oil is forced thru the pistons valve stack. The idea is to find a balance of oil weight and how much oil the piston can flow. Try putting your fork back together with out the springs and you will be able to feel it very easily. After you do this you may want thinner oil then you had as now oil has to go thru the shim stack instead of an open hole and that requires thinner oil.

As it is stock, at low to medium speeds all the oil that needs to move as the piston moves up thru the tube can do so uncontrolled thru the holes as they are pretty big. Only when the fork starts to move very rapidly is there any reason for the oil to even try to flow thru the piston. And even then I don't think much of it will. The difference between the before and after the mod was night and day. It was a bigger difference on my wifes bike then anything else I have done.