Voltage regulator swap

[dhansen]

Hi All.

 

I've suspected the voltage regulator on my '01 V11 is the source of an annoying intermittent voltage issue. I've detailed the syptoms in the past and no one has ever experienced exactly the same conditions or has come up with a solution beyond swaping out the regulator and see if that cures the problem. I've choked on doing that because of the cost of the replacement regulator but I have been told that the regulator from the 750 Breva can be used successfully on the V11 and I managed to get one at a reasonable cost.

 

So now the question is sorting out the differences in the wiring colors.

 

The original regulator has 3 pairs of wires coming from it, (2) yellow, (2)red and a white & black pair.

 

The Breva regulator has (2) yellow, (2) green and (2) red/white.

 

I'm hoping someone can help figure out which wire corresponds with which between the two regulators.

 

If I remember correctly, the yellows just go together without concern over polarity, as in either wire can connect together, doesn't matter which one goes where.

 

On the original regulator the two red wires tie together into a single connector and the black and white pair remain independent and go into a two prong connector.

 

On the Breva regulator the two green and two red/white wires remain independent but go into a four prong connector.

 

 

Obviously, I've got to sort out some new connectors but that isn't a problem.

 

TIA folks.

[raz]

What does it look like in the regulator end, no clues? Is there any brand or part no. on it?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Once again Carl Allison saves the day

Here is his Breva Drawing

 

Note:

You will no longer have a Charging light.

 

Make sure you connect the two green to a solid ground point

 

The Two reds connect together and go back to the 30 Amp fuse

 

Just tape up the other connector on your bike.

 

I don't think this regulator requires grounding but bolt it down.

 

Two yellows as before to the alternator coil wires

 

Roy

[dhansen]

What does it look like in the regulator end, no clues? Is there any brand or part no. on it?

 

Hej Raz.

 

This is the Moto Guzzi factory regulator that is used on the 2004 750 Breva and others. New here in the USA they are about $140 which is much better than the almost $300 for the original regulator for the V11. I got mine from a wrecked 2004 Breva for less than $30 with shipping. (I was assured by the seller that it is fully functional. We shall see)!

 

Besides the slightly different wiring scheme it is slightly larger than the original and the mounting holes are on a different spacing. I will need to do a simple modification to the mounting bracket to make it fit.

 

I'll take photos as I go along and (assuming it all works) will post them when I have it done.

 

Here are the two regulators: (Breva regulator til venstra)

 

[gstallons]

Can you post pictures of the regulator connectors?

Are they identical ? Connectors and color and wiring placement,etc.

[dhansen]

Once again Carl Allison saves the day

Here is his Breva Drawing

 

Note:

You will no longer have a Charging light.

 

Make sure you connect the two green to a solid ground point

 

The Two reds connect together and go back to the 30 Amp fuse

 

Just tape up the other connector on your bike.

 

I don't think this regulator requires grounding but bolt it down.

 

Two yellows as before to the alternator coil wires

 

Roy

 

Thank you Roy (and Carl)!

 

I should have thought about Carl's wiring diagrams but didn't. At any rate, it is very nice to have some solid input leading me down the right path.

 

It looks as though there is a dedicated ground wire that ran from the case of the original regulator (under a mounting bolt) back to the battery. Assuming that's what it is (I'll trace it back) I will use it to ground the new regulator. If not, I'll ground it to the engine block.

 

 

I'll report back after I get it all together.

[dhansen]

Can you post pictures of the regulator connectors?

Are they identical ? Connectors and color and wiring placement,etc.

 

My first post has pictures of the connectors. The wires to the left are from the original regulator and the wires to the right are from the Breva. They are totally different but thanks to Roy you will see the conversion is not that complicated.

 

I'll try to document it as I go along.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I'll report back after I get it all together.

I just put my regulator back this evening, same bike, same year but the regulator was just grounded to the frame, no wire back to the battery. I bolted a heavy ground cable to it and ran to an engine bolt. It seems to have made a difference but time will tell. I don't think your new reg needs a ground and another nice thing it won't need the headlight circuit to work. Of course you won't have a charging light. You might be able to come up with a little circuit to turn the light on say below 12.5 volts

I found out something interesting, at idle the alternator puts out around 5 Amps but the drain on the battery is 9 Amps, It's not until just under 2000 revs that it breaks even, at 3000 there's a net gain of about 10-12 Amps

Roy

[luhbo]

....at idle the alternator puts out around 5 Amps but the drain on the battery is 9 Amps, It's not until just under 2000 revs that it breaks even, at 3000 there's a net gain of about 10-12 Amps

Roy

 

Please explain how you came to these figures.

 

Hubert

[dhansen]

I just put my regulator back this evening, same bike, same year but the regulator was just grounded to the frame, no wire back to the battery. I bolted a heavy ground cable to it and ran to an engine bolt. It seems to have made a difference but time will tell.

 

Funny thing for me is I had never noticed the ground wire running (as I assume, haven't traced it yet) back to the battery. It is shown in Carl's schematic but then I had not studied the schematic until yesterday. I also added a ground wire between the case of the regulator and the engine block. No change at all noticed which makes more sense since finding the other ground wire.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Please explain how you came to these figures.

 

Hubert

Updated Response May 10

First of all I put my multimeter (Fluke 87) in series with the bullet connector at the end of regulator cable (2 red wires plug into 1 going back to 30 Amp fuse) I saw 4.5 - 5 Amps and thought "that looks OK for 1000 rpm". But when I reconnected the bullet connector and measured the battery voltage to my surprise it was dropping.

 

I pulled the positive wires off the battery and put back just the heavy lead to starter motor, It would fry the meter if i tried to measure that and besides it's only used for cranking.

The other two positive wires I joined with the positive clip of meter, the negative clip to the battery positive, This is the normal location for an ammeter, or it used to be on the British bikes when they had generators.

At first turning on the key the current goes to -9 dropping back to -5 when the pump stops

At 1000 RPM the current is - 4.5 (discharging)

At 2000 RPM it's break even

At 3000 RPM it's +5 (charging)

 

Note: Your results may be different depending on all sorts of things, I would be interested to compare

Also Note: the message on the Ducati reg saying not to remove wires with the engine running, turn the bike off while you connect the ammeter!

 

Roy

 

PS If all my numbers don't add up, don't shoot me, I'm going from memory here ok!

 

Update

I just got back from a short ride 12.83 volts when i left, 12.77 mid way and 12.83 when I got back

Obviously the reg is on it's way out, the red light came on dimly at times with no relationship to revs. I am confident all the wiring is OK

If you get a chance please duplicate my tests and i will fix the drawing up.

 

Update 2

I had major problems yesterday the bike lost voltage from the outset, I noticed that the tacho would drop to zero so from that I figure the regulator is loosing it's 12 V reference as well. I will inspect all the wiring through the week. I even tried jumpering from the headlight to the regulator, it didn't improve so the headlight is probably going out too I suspect the relay base at the moment R1 87a or R2.

At one stage I called into an electronic hardware store, bought a bridge rectifier and put it in place of the regulator thus bypassing most of the wiring, even at idle the battery voltage shot up past 14.5, this proves that there is plenty of current available. I couldn't leave it in because above idle it pushed the voltage past 15 and the bike would cut out. I think there must be something in the ECU that causes it to cut out if voltage is too high.

 

Update 3 May 10 2010

Tonight I pulled the relay bases off and removed all the contacts. Several of the contacts were quite loose, barely gripping the relay pin and one of the 87 contacts on relay 2 wasn't gripping at all.

I tightened them all by squeezing carefully with a pair of pliers. I think this has made an improvement, see revised sketch, note 5

I don't fully understand why the improvement but I haven't been for a ride yet so the jury is still out on the regulator. I'm almost certain that the loose 87 contact was the cause of the tacho dropping back to zero. All in all it took me around 2 hours to pull the contacts and if nothing else I can cross that off the list.

I haven't been riding at night otherwise I'm sure I would have noticed a flicker in the headlight.

I added a few notes to the relay base drawing to show contact removal etc.

Charging Circuit.pdf

Relays Bases May 10 2010.pdf

[Kiwi_Roy]

Funny thing for me is I had never noticed the ground wire running (as I assume, haven't traced it yet) back to the battery. It is shown in Carl's schematic but then I had not studied the schematic until yesterday. I also added a ground wire between the case of the regulator and the engine block. No change at all noticed which makes more sense since finding the other ground wire.

Do you think someone ran a ground or is it original, I have the Ducati regulator, I'm sure mine has improved, I will know by tonight, I just added a sketch back up the thread a little.

[emry]

Breakeven results like that are fairly typical on a full wave system. That is why most manufacturers switched to three phase systems, particularly on FI models.

[luhbo]

I haven't measured currents on my bike so far. Only voltage. Then I see at the poles around 12.1 with lights and Lambda controller/heater on, no pump, and around 12.8 with the engine at idle.

12.8 is probably not really recharging the battery. Anyway, as the voltage is higher as with the engine off I assume the alternator does an acceptable job already at idle rpms.

 

Hubert

[raz]

I replaced my regulator last year. The old one gave a net charge from 3-4000 rpm with lights off. I opted to replace it with an OEM.

 

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