No Start and Speedo Question

[SRL]

Ok so I searched all the "No start" and "Speedo" threads and found a bunch of info but nothing that answers my question or addresses my particular situation so here goes the story...

 

 

As you have probably read I am new to V11 ownership and recently picked up this bike and rode it home 1200 miles over four days without incident.

 

It sat for a few weeks (on the bat tender) and yesterday I rode it 25 miles to the office which it started right up and ran fine but...

 

(Potential Problem #1) I did notice that the Speedo while working fine seems to be vibrating loose inside the housing only held in place by the speedo cable. There are two screws in the back and they are tight but they don't seem to be doing anything to steady the speedo.

 

Questions: Is this normal? If not is this an indicator of anything bad to come?

 

While at work I roll my bikes from the front of the building to back to keep them in the shade as the sun passes over so I did not try to start it during the day but did push it around a bit and at one point someone was asking about the steering stab so I did turn the bars to full right lock to show them what it did.

 

(Potential Problem #2) I worked late, came out jumped on the bike turned the key the usual things happened neutral and oil lights on, short humm from under seat area, hit the starter and nothing. I thought well people had been looking at it during the day so probably kill switch or something easy. Checked switches several times, tried starting in gear, kickstand up/down, looked at ss safety switch, looked at clutch switch, checked all fuses and reseated relays. Really seemed like a safety switch type issue and I thought this is going to be something dumb that I am forgetting about doing or someone is messing with me but I looked at everything. All exposed connectors, all switches, but turn the key on/off same thing everytime.

 

I came back into work and checked the forum but did not see anything else that I could check from work with no tools or a meter so I gave up and called the wife for a ride. I rolled the bike around the building to put it in the receiving bay and in a last ditch "I cannot believe I am stranded" looked at the bar wiring and key switch again. I turned the bars to full steer lock right while thumbing the starter and it started right up.

 

I canceled my rescue and rode home without incident. When I got home I shut it off and then tried to start it again. It failed just like at the office so I turned it to the right steer lock then back to center and it fired up. I turned it off and tried again and it started so I rolled it in the garage happy to be home but not really happy.

 

Questions: Anyone had this issue before or have an idea as to what it is? Do you think it is related to the clutch safety wiring?

 

I'm thankful that it did not show up on my 1200 mile trip but surely over those days and miles it seems like I would have turned the bars lock to lock. The bars are regularly at the left steer lock to lock the forks but I guess there is not as much call for right lock.

 

Thanks in advance for any insight!

[VA Sean]

Speedo - the OEM were pieces of shit. Expect it to fail and that you'll have to replace it.

Mine crapped out somewhere in Texas at appx. 8,000 miles on the clock.

 

The hum you hear when you turn the ignition is the fuel pump - that is normal.

 

The rest sounds like there is a short in the wiring, and it is fine when the bars are cocked to one side, but it is exposed (shorting) when it is not. Check for fraying.

[docc]

You are right, it is the clutch switch connectors. They are under the tank, forward along the frame on the left. These are simple bullet type connectors which ride in the weather coming in along the steering head. They benefit from cleaning, tightening, and some insulating grease like copper anti-seize or Vaseline. While thank is off, it's good to clean and lube all the connectors, groom the wires and be sure nothing is binding or tugging especially moving the bars lock to lock.

 

It is possible the switch itself could use cleaning or even replacing, but most of the time it's the connectors.

 

How do mean the speedometer is "vibrating loose inside?" Does it make noise or simply the needle is not steady?

[SRL]

You are right, it is the clutch switch connectors. They are under the tank, forward along the frame on the left. These are simple bullet type connectors which ride in the weather coming in along the steering head. They benefit from cleaning, tightening, and some insulating grease like copper anti-seize or Vaseline. While thank is off, it's good to clean and lube all the connectors, groom the wires and be sure nothing is binding or tugging especially moving the bars lock to lock.

 

It is possible the switch itself could use cleaning or even replacing, but most of the time it's the connectors.

 

How do mean the speedometer is "vibrating loose inside?" Does it make noise or simply the needle is not steady?

 

 

The needle is steady and all works fine but I noticed that the whole gauge face was vibrating within the housing. When you grab the speedo cable you can move the meter up and down like it is not secured to the housing just floating in there held in place by the ridgid cable. It seems like those two screws would lock the meter up against the face of the housing and then the cable would connect. I have not taken the cable off yet to see what happens.

 

I'll pull the tank this weekend and hit all of those connectors, I've been wanting to look under there anyway and see what's what. Also make sure the tank vent is properly secured as I read about that one being an issue. Speaking of which is there any reason NOT to remove the carbon canister thingy? I would have thought that everyone outside of Cali would have done this but I found very few threads on the topic and one guy said that it caused his bike to run funny which seems odd since it is basically just a fume rebreather?

 

Appreciate the quick responses and great input!

[raz]

Speaking of which is there any reason NOT to remove the carbon canister thingy? I would have thought that everyone outside of Cali would have done this but I found very few threads on the topic and one guy said that it caused his bike to run funny which seems odd since it is basically just a fume rebreather?

Yes. The environment.

 

The only reason to remove it would be weight and decrease of complexity aka points of failure. I doubt they weigh that much and they're not that complex. Sometimes people are tossing environment friendly stuff just on principle. I tend to classify them as stupid people, just on principle.

[SRL]

Yes. The environment.

 

The only reason to remove it would be weight and decrease of complexity aka points of failure. I doubt they weigh that much and they're not that complex. Sometimes people are tossing environment friendly stuff just on principle. I tend to classify them as stupid people, just on principle.

 

So since the world outside the regulation for the sake of regulation Peoples Republik of California did not see this as an instrument to save the planet I have to ask if you have added this "environment friendly" piece of equipment to your bike? Since these items are readily available for little to no cost (so many removed and tossed) I assume that you would also classify people that do not add them to their bikes to be stupid, just on principle?

 

 

I'm sure the reason why we are the only ones carrying this crap is that the rest of the world actually looked at test results and said - that does nothing so why would we enact a regulation with no result? The Republik of Cali on the other hand is not as concerned with results as they are with the appearance of action, which is why they (and the Feds) continue to pass law on top of law yet never enforce any of the existing laws which would have eliminated the need for further laws, but that is a whole other discussion.

[Guzzi2Go]

Two studs that hold the instrument tend to get wiggly if played around with (or being looked at). It will not hurt to remove the plastic cover and have a look. Arm yourself with some thick glue (like epoxy), since I don't believe there are many better ways to fasten them back.

 

And yes, the trip reset knob is wrong threaded.

[raz]

So since the world outside the regulation for the sake of regulation Peoples Republik of California did not see this as an instrument to save the planet I have to ask if you have added this "environment friendly" piece of equipment to your bike? Since these items are readily available for little to no cost (so many removed and tossed) I assume that you would also classify people that do not add them to their bikes to be stupid, just on principle?

That's a thought, but no. You are probably right it is not effective. I meant it's not rational to lift the tank just to remove them, unless there was problems with the system. You were going to lift the tank anyway, that's not the same thing.

[Skeeve]

I'm sure the reason why we are the only ones carrying this crap is that the rest of the world actually looked at test results and said - that does nothing so why would we enact a regulation with no result? The Republik of Cali on the other hand is not as concerned with results as they are with the appearance of action, which is why they (and the Feds) continue to pass law on top of law yet never enforce any of the existing laws which would have eliminated the need for further laws, but that is a whole other discussion.

 

No, the reason nobody else requires this piece of equipment is they don't have the same environment as southern CA. The conditions for the creation of photochemical smog are specific, and most of the rest of the world, while they may possess one or two of the criteria, don't have all of So.Cal.'s recipe: minimal air movement, chronic inversion layer, lots & lots & LOTS of vehicles, & most days being sunny & warm. Put'em all together & you get the EPA telling the state "Do something about this or be fined!"

 

Call it a devil's brew of govt. bureaucracy combined with an environmental round-house kick to the head.

 

All it adds is weight & some extra hoses. If you live in the bay area north of San Jose, well, skip it: it will not affect your environment significantly due to the constant wind, & it can be argued that the weight savings will add up to enough fuel saved over the life of the vehicle to offset any negative f/x from the added fuel vapors off-gassed. Park in the shade & call it a wash.

 

Here in Lo-Cal So.Cal., it's not worth my time to pull it off, and since it has no negative f/x leaving it in situ and helps prevent the return of those halcyon days of yore when I was growing up in Pasadena & could count the # of days each summer on one hand that the dirty Commies didn't sneak in & steal the mountains when we weren't paying attention, well, I kind of like keeping it around. When I finally blow this taco stand and emigrate to Free America, I'll likely yank it off. Unless that's to Phoenix or Tucson or one of the handful of other places where it would still serve some useful purpose.

 

Ride on!

 

[galaxiid]

I'm glad this thread popped up. I had a very similar "no start" problem which has occurred intermittently with my Cafe Sport. It is so intermittent it is difficult to convince anyone that the fault exists. Exactly the same symptoms as described.

 

Press starter: nothing. It can take from 5-60 mins to get some life out of the starter button, carry out all the usual jiggery-pokery and underseat fiddling with relays etc. Nothing appears to help.

 

Although bystanders are impressed with the bike being pulled to bits. Looks as if I am "in control"

 

"What sort of bike is that" they normally ask. It's an Italian one I answer....

 

But the last time this happened it was at a friends place and he suggested pulling in the clutch while thumbing the starter. Bang the engine fired, started no problems.

 

So I am guessing it is clutch switch related, the advice further back seems to be worth following up.

[docc]

For sure, there are three contributors to failure of the clutch circuit to allow the starter to engage:

 

#1 is failure of the exposed connectors under the left side of the tank.

#2 is the crud that accumulates between the lever and the switch including the little ball in the channel of the housing (all easy to clean).

#3 is the switch itself which is a $5 fix.

 

Rotating the bars to one side then the other trying the starter button would indicate the connectors are suspect if this triggers a start.

 

The US vapor recovery system weighs five pounds. That is not quite 1% of the bike's weight without the rider.

[grossohc]

But the last time this happened it was at a friends place and he suggested pulling in the clutch while thumbing the starter. Bang the engine fired, started no problems.

 

So I am guessing it is clutch switch related, the advice further back seems to be worth following up.

 

I thought that was the normal procedure for starting these bikes. Clutch lever in then press the button.!!! My bike will never ever start without the clutch lever being in.

[HaydnR]

(wanted to do that for ages)

[bsmarble]

Same thing happened to my V11 Sport when I first purchased it, in fact it would not start when I brought it home for the first time. It was the side stand switch connector under the tank. If the switch has been removed like most are then the connector needs a jumper. If this connection gets a bit of moisture in it or comes loose the bike wont start. If the switch is still intact at the side stand follow the wires that go under the left side of the tank. Give them a wiggle while pressing the starter button.. Good Luck

[SRL]

Thanks all! It was in that group of connections under the tank, turning the bar all the way right flexed them a little. It seemed like it was the clutch connection but I reseated them all and all seems well now.

 

Is Vaseline the best way to insulate them or should I go buy some dielectric grease?

 

I think I'm going to wrap them in fusion tape too.