1200 sport 8v compared to griso 8v

[Bogwopit]

Hi all,

 

just picked up my newish 8v 1200sport and was very dissapointed.I got off an 8v griso and straight onto the sport and was not expecting any great diff. in the engine/power delivery but it was completely different. The 1200 obviously felt different to the griso in terms of seating pos. suspension set-up but what I did n't expect was the bikes power delivery to be flat.With the griso when you open the throttle you get a decent tug on the arms, and when you feel the need to overtake you just go, with no hesitation.It just goes and goes.The sport felt like i was on an old california again.Anyone had any similiar experiences of the comparison. I suspect something amiss with the bike.[it is a high mileage example, after all; nearly 1500 on the clock!]

 

One thing I did notice was the exhaust seemed to be very noisy.Far noisier than the standard griso can for instance.I queried with the dealer as to wether it had a removable baffle but apparently not.I thought perhaps the previous owner may have removed the baffling from the exhaust to make it louder and this was having a detrimental effect on performance. It's def. noisier than the 3 sports at the recent N.I. meeting and they had Mistral cans on.I believe the new 8v sport is supposed to be better silenced than the older model.

 

The dealer has said to drop it back in for them to have a look at.I do know it was n't roadtested after the parts were refitted following the unsuccesful attempt to fit the stage1 kit. You never know, something may have been missed off or not connected.

Ho Hum, never mind, I look forward to your help/suggestions.

 

Andy.

[pete roper]

Can't be of much help with this as I've only ridden one 1200 Sport 8V but it is essentially the same powerplant as the 8VGand the one I rode was similar in performance. I'd suggest there is something not right with it but what?I can't say.

 

Pete

[Paul Minnaert]

maybe they took the cat out?

[raz]

Having read http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15513 I wonder if there could be different (older/newer) maps for the 1200 too?

[GuzziMoto]

Do they use different gearing like they do between the 1100 motors?

That would do it.

[pete roper]

Do they use different gearing like they do between the 1100 motors?

That would do it.

 

 

I think that it may be one of a couple of issues.

 

1.) set up. as usual.

 

2.) all the 2010 models use the A8 motor with softer cams and, at least on the Grisos, the same mapping as far as I can make out.

 

The A8 motored bikes all seem to run very sweetly straight out of the box. Certainly they don't appear to display any of the signs of what most people seem to describe as 'Surging', (Something I've never been able to put a finger on.) but they also seem to lack the real 'Kick In The Pants', (in Guzzi terms ) that the A5 motored bikes have.

 

I feel that I flog the hobby-horse of the new motor too hard sometimes. Thing is I love it. Certainly on my two 8VG's with the A5 motor they give NOTHING away to the older 2VPC donk in Griso/Breva/Sport/Norge form but once you're above 5,500 they just romp away over the horizon.

 

In the same way that people shat on the V11 when it first came out because it wasn't like earlier Guzzis, (Which had been shat on for over a decade because they were seen as underpowered, slow steering anachronisms. And by Guzzi owners as well as the 'Press'.) it now seems that even though the 8V motor is the answer to a maiden's prayer as far as what most owners of earlier models have been asking for, (100+ RWHP in a solid chassis with top end rush, a six speed box and decent suspension.) it is still going to get sht-canned by a new generation of crusty old corn-cob pipists and assholles who think that all development stopped shortly after the introduction of the model 'T' Ford.

 

I'd love to see a new Guzzi 'Sports' bike a-la LeMans. I think Piaggio are fucking barmy not to build one. But the top of the range of the current models are really very, very good motorbikes. Griso 12 is top of my list, followed by the Bellagio and the 1200 Sport. all the rest are also rans and we won't even start to talk about the smallblocks .

 

The FACT is that regardless of who owns or designs 'em. Regardless if Guzzi is now a 'Brand' under Piaggio. The New Guzzis are, on the whole, fucking superb.

 

Try it. You might like it. If you don't? there are a zillion other boring, soul-less, tedious, rent-an-image, motorbikes out there. f@ck off and ride one of them and let the brand die. I'll be riding mine until i can't hold the fuckers up any more. Loop, Tonti, Hi-Cam? Yeah. I love 'em all. and you know what?

 

Every single one has been better than the last.

 

Pete

[GuzziMoto]

Yeah, Pete. I agree with you that the new Guzzi motors are great. But do the different models use different final gearing like the 1100's did or do they use the same final gearing?

[pete roper]

Yeah, Pete. I agree with you that the new Guzzi motors are great. But do the different models use different final gearing like the 1100's did or do they use the same final gearing?

 

 

The 8V's use a different gearbox to the earlier CARC bikes. All the CARC's themselves are identical apart from colour, Gearing changes on the earlier bikes were achieved with different primary ratios. AFAIK all the 8V gearboxes use identical primaries and I believe that all the other ratios are the same too but I'll have to double check that with the parts lists.

 

Pete

[GuzziMoto]

Thanks Pete.

[Baldini]

I'll be riding mine until i can't hold the fuckers up any more. Loop, Tonti, Hi-Cam? Yeah. I love 'em all. and you know what?

 

Every single one has been better than the last.

 

Pete

 

PAH. YOU CAN'T BEAT A GOOD TONTI.

 

Pete, if you could find in yourself the patience to be gentle with an ignorant man, could you explain A5 & A8 motors...your flowing description above confused me: A5 is 2V is 4V, A8 is 8V? 1100 Griso is 4V, 1200 is 8V. When you say you love the new motors, do you mean the 8V's?

I'm sure Grisos are wonderful things, but I struggled with high bars, couldn't weight the front & could barely hang on. To me, on all the new bikes, Guzzi licked too much the arse of the modern world - fashion & style lead design rather than function - Too much plastic with no purpose, what are those fiddly little round chromed plastic inserts in the sideplates & why does the frame arch so high over the motor? Still if I had the money, I'd have a Griso with flat bars, after all it's got rear suspension.

KB

[pete roper]

PAH. YOU CAN'T BEAT A GOOD TONTI.

 

Pete, if you could find in yourself the patience to be gentle with an ignorant man, could you explain A5 & A8 motors...your flowing description above confused me: A5 is 2V is 4V, A8 is 8V? 1100 Griso is 4V, 1200 is 8V. When you say you love the new motors, do you mean the 8V's?

 

KB

 

 

Sorry Keith. The A5 and A8 motors are the two current itterations of the 'new' 8V donk. all the 2008-2009 models used the A5. Outwardly identical the differences are simply down to the cams between the two. Strangely though although the cam timing, lift and profiles are different the factory seems to use the same mapping for Grisos with both the A5 motor and the A8, Which is fitted to all 2010 models. My guess is that originally they were going to run with the A8 but it wouldn't break the 'Magic' 100RWHP mark that pencilnecks crave so they cammed it up a bit to get it to the ton and started selling it. Problem was the map didn't work, hence the upgrades for 2008-9 machines. The 2010 A8 motored bikes I've ridden, both Griso and 1200 Sport 4V, fuel up very, very nicely straight out of the box. But they do lack a bit of the top end kick that the A5 motor has. while I've got my two A5 motored Grisos running in a manner perfectly satisfactory to me I think that many 'Modern' motorcyclists would prefer the smoother, almost anodyne characteristics of the A8 motor.

 

As for model descriptions?? You tell me! The Griso 12 is described as an 8V but both the Stelvio and 1200 Sport are described as 4V andI think the Norge is going to be an 8V too?? Buggered if I know what they're playing at. Marketing dept couldn't wipe it's arse if someone else guided their hand I reckon.......

 

Pete

 

PS. As to ergonomics of the new bikes? That's obviously a very personal thing. If the factory designers had been given a brief to build a bike specifically for ME they couldn't of done a better job than the 8VG. It fits and suits me like a glove. Only Ergo changes I've made I in fact did yesterday fitting some lowered footpegs which should stop my poor old knees cramping on long journeys. Only problem is that I'll be getting through sets of boots even quicker now as even with the (Incorrect.) 190 section tyre on it I drag my feet constantly with thestock pegs.

[Baldini]

Thanks Pete. Think I follow.

So you could only tell difference by production date/engine #?

Same motor except A5 (2008/9) has slightly fiercer cam & dodgy stock mapping?

Be interesting to see a dyno graph for correct set up versions of both.

KB