V11 Balabio Misfire

[Kiwi_Roy]

 

Thoughts appreciated

Thanks

Rob

Thinking about the symptoms wouldn't it have to be either the ignition or injectors cutting out intermittently, did you try monitoring voltage with a lamp to make sure it stays on at rthe ECU and injector relay output?

Another point you could connect a lamp would be to the positive wire at a coil and ground just in case it's lost somewhere in the loom.

I would also connect a multimeter up to the TPS input to the ECU and see if that flickers co-inciding with the pops. Strap the meter to the tank so you can keep an eye on it.

I suppose it could also be a fuel delivery issue but I suspect it's got to be related to the ECU or something connected to it.

BTW, when you disconnect the PCIII and run off stock ECU the injectors are driven by a different set of transistors, I think the coils are always from ECU

[Tom M]

I don't know if your problem is the TPS but some here have replaced theirs with a Harley-Davidson part that is a lot less costly than the Guzzi part. A search here should turn up the details if you decide to go that route.

 

Is your ECU mounted with the connector facing up or down? If it's facing up toward the seat pan like mine was when I bought my bike that can cause problems because the seat pan can flex and strike the wire harness and ECU connector. It took me a while to figure that one out.

 

You might want to double check the relays and their connections, and maybe swap relays again to make sure that's not the problem.

[javahouse]

I'd like to try the HD TPS but there seems to be none in the UK. It's on back-order expected 6th July in Belgium.

Otherwise there's wildly varying prices for the MG part. Teo Lamers quoted about €380 whereas SparesGB in the UK quoted £79... but - you guessed it - out of stock and on back-order.

 

I've ordered a replacement fiat crank sensor, expected tomorrow.

 

I ought to try the wiring checks that Kiwi Roy recommends really. I'm having a day off it tomorrow. It's my birthday, and I also need to get my 1000S 100% so that I can go away on that at the weekend. Which will be nice.

It's been frustrating. Never had anything quite like this with carb bikes. This is turning into something of a baptism of fire. Still, I'm becoming quite familiar with Guzzi fi very quickly.

 

Rob

[javahouse]

Thinking about the symptoms wouldn't it have to be either the ignition or injectors cutting out intermittently, did you try monitoring voltage with a lamp to make sure it stays on at rthe ECU and injector relay output?

 

I'm thinking the TPS will be controlling the timing and the fuelling. And I'm thinking the banging could be a weak mixture and maybe too much advance too? (though surely logic would say the TPS would be retarding for a weak mix?)

If the TPS is giving duff info I don't think it'd matter whether the original ecu or the PC was driving the injectors. If it's flickering to lean whilst the air throughput of the cylinder was too high, then flickering back??

Maybe it's the crank sensor... that'd make the coil feeds flicker too

Dunno. I don't mind buying a TPS and a crank sensor and having them on the shelf really.

 

Ta

Rob

[javahouse]

Anyways

Threw a new crank sensor at it, then new inlet rubbers (nothing wrong with old ones except superficial cracks) cleaned all wiring conns. Exhaust off and re-sealed all the exhaust connections. Had alternator cover & reg off. Don't know what else... and the problem was just the same.

 

So I thought, lets try something different, so set TPS to 650 at idle. Wound the idle speed down to compensate. Increased the TPS voltage again and wound down idle.

Set the air screws at 1-turn each.

Everything balanced and it ran like a dream.

TPS setting at full closed now 340mV.

 

I think the gods just wanted me to go to Scotland on the 1000S. Which was great BTW.

 

Posted the above just to close the subject, and to hearten anyone else tearing their hair out. Just because common wisdom says 150mV doesn't mean it's right 100% of the time. I think someone must've tweaked my ECU at some point.

 

Many thanks to Graham and everyone else who helped tho

 

Rob

[Tom M]

Glad to hear you got it running right again Rob. My bike wouldn't run right with the baseline TPS at 150mV either, and I know there are lots of others out there with the same problem. Regular readers here are probably sick of hearing this from me but once again ignoring the recommended setup procedure and using the "Micha Method" would have saved you a lot of grief. Here it is again for anyone who missed it in the past.

 

Step one - Set your valves to world settings (.15mm/.006" intake, .2mm/.008" exhaust)

Step two - Set your air bleed screws to open 1 full turn

Step three - Synch throttle bodies at just off idle (around 1800 rpm)

Step four - Set idle to 1100 using left idle screw adjuster only

Step five - Set TPS to 3.6 degrees (530mV)

Step six - Ensure idle trim is set to zero. This requires an AXEONE dealer tool or VDST software.

 

Again glad to hear you're back on the road.

[pasotibbs]

Just out of interest which Fiat has the same Crank/Cam Sensor ?

[javahouse]

Glad to hear you got it running right again Rob. My bike wouldn't run right with the baseline TPS at 150mV either, and I know there are lots of others out there with the same problem. Regular readers here are probably sick of hearing this from me but once again ignoring the recommended setup procedure and using the "Micha Method" would have saved you a lot of grief. Here it is again for anyone who missed it in the past.

 

Step one - Set your valves to world settings (.15mm/.006" intake, .2mm/.008" exhaust)

Step two - Set your air bleed screws to open 1 full turn

Step three - Synch throttle bodies at just off idle (around 1800 rpm)

Step four - Set idle to 1100 using left idle screw adjuster only

Step five - Set TPS to 3.6 degrees (530mV)

Step six - Ensure idle trim is set to zero. This requires an AXEONE dealer tool or VDST software.

 

Again glad to hear you're back on the road.

 

Aha

Did see that, thanks, but when I read "This requires an AXEONE dealer tool or VDST software" I got spooked.

I don't know or fancy using any local guzzi dealers, so struggled through.

If anyone can recommend a specialist in Cheshire I may give them a go.

Cheers

Rob

[javahouse]

Just out of interest which Fiat has the same Crank/Cam Sensor ?

 

Hi

It's Marelli SEN-813 for

Alfa 145/146 1.4

Fiat (loads)

Fiat PN PDTS0032 or 7733001

I got mine from Intermotor - it's made in Italy and looks A LOT like the original. £28 at the local car spares factors.

 

Rob

[javahouse]

Just set the TPS to 320mV full closed. Air screws 1.5 turns, had to turn the idle down and idle tps setting is now 385mV.

Feels even better. Silky (as a Guzzi ever gets!)

I'll see what the plugs look like after the next decent run.

 

Rob

[motoguzznix]

Just set the TPS to 320mV full closed. Air screws 1.5 turns, had to turn the idle down and idle tps setting is now 385mV.

Feels even better. Silky (as a Guzzi ever gets!)

I'll see what the plugs look like after the next decent run

Rob

I see your problem but setting the TPS to 320 or 340 mV is simply the wrong way to overcome the lean condition of the mixture. The ECU then always works in the wrong area of the maps. After setting the TPS to 150/530 mV and having synched the throttle bodys at idle and part throttle, you have to set the idle trim in the ECU to 3.5 % CO at idle. IF the engine still refuses to perform well, you may try 170 mV and/or 4,5% CO and then reconnect the PC with an appropriate map. If the previous settings are not correct, the PC either will not work the way it should.

[javahouse]

I totally agree with you.

Can I connect to the ECU with my laptop? Is there freeware (or software at least) to do so? and can you source the interface leads?

Ta

Rob

[motoguzznix]

I totally agree with you.

Can I connect to the ECU with my laptop? Is there freeware (or software at least) to do so? and can you source the interface leads?

Ta

Rob

There are diagnostic tools available containing hard and software to do everything on the injection system. But this is not cheap - you will find a lot of information about this when searching in this forum.

 

But the simplest way is when you go to a dealer who owns the axone tester and a CO meter. Let him make the adjustment of the CO value - 3.5 % - you have to do this only once and then you can leave it alone.

[javahouse]

Went out for 10 miles yesterday and everything was wonderful.

20 miles this morning and it was just starting to play up toward the end.

Just had to come 20 miles back and it's now shockingly bad again. Backfiring/popping/misfiring/kangarooing, and from all I could tell it was getting worse and worse till it got home. The last journey the degree of fault was immediately apparent and seemed to start from where it had finished on the previous journey.

Back to the drawing board. Something's going out of range.

Ideas??

Cheers

Rob

[savagehenry]

Not saying it is, but you have NO exhaust leaks, yes?...