Charging system

[Murray]

That's interesting Doc. I think I used to see more than 14 volts but I'm not positive. I'd love to know if the spec for the V11 is the same as Murray's 1100 Sport. Murray, do you know if your bike has the same alternator and regulator (Ducati) as the V11?

 

It did have the Ducati reg till all the smoke came out one night. It now has a Accel one for a HD now admittedly I never tested with the Ducati reg I replaced the reg then looked up the specs to ensure it was working as advertised. It was spot on and has been there for over ten years and 100 000kms. As far as I know the charging systems are the same. The other thing to check is put the negative lead of your voltmeter on a metal earth or even better the case of the reg and see if there is a variation, if there is its an earthing issue.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The other thing to check is put the negative lead of your voltmeter on a metal earth or even better the case of the reg and see if there is a variation, if there is its an earthing issue.

Yes the type of spring nuts used to hold the reg in place shouldn't be relied on. The ground has to carry the total alternator output current. As Murray points out if you loose say 1/4 Volt between the regulator and chassis your battery will be low by the same ammount. I drilled a hole in one of the fins and put a heavy duty cable between there and a timing cover bolt.

The Ducati regulator operates by opening up the charging circuit whereas some others operate by shorting out the alternator.

Most alternators are 3 phase but the Guzzi is single phase so I would be a bit careful about substituting an after market regulator.

 

If anyones into repairing a regulator send me a PM.

[Tom M]

Well I'm back from my vacation and the bike ran great. I had some awesome rides through the White mountains and through the lakes region of Maine. I used my battery tender to keep the battery charged up since the charging system isn't quite getting the job done and it started faultlessly every time.

 

Today I checked the connectors and grounds and everything looks and tests OK. I also checked the alternator AC output and it's well within spec so I guess I have a weak regulator. My meter won't check diodes so I didn't try Kiwi Roy's test. I replaced the original regulator at around 15k miles when it quit completely, now at 30k miles this one is weak. I wonder if I should try something other than the Ducati unit this time?

 

Murray, can you give me any more info on the Accel unit that you're using? Is it plug & play? If not I can probably find my original regulator and could reuse the connectors from that. I'd like to keep this one unmolested as an emergency backup.

 

Anybody else have any suggestions for a reliable replacement?

[docc]

It looks like I've launched a simultaneous thread without realizing."Regulator Rebuild"

 

Tom, I think your findings and mine are pretty much the same. I've ordered a new Ducatia Energia regulator form EuroMotoElectrics and a new Hawker from West coast battery.

 

It will be a wonder if my charging voltage comes up to 14! But, hey, one can hope!

 

Perhaps KiwiRoy will have a proper regulator upgrade for us now!

[Tom M]

It looks like I've launched a simultaneous thread without realizing."Regulator Rebuild"

 

Tom, I think your findings and mine are pretty much the same. I've ordered a new Ducatia Energia regulator form EuroMotoElectrics and a new Hawker from West coast battery.

 

It will be a wonder if my charging voltage comes up to 14! But, hey, one can hope!

 

Perhaps KiwiRoy will have a proper regulator upgrade for us now!

 

No problem here Doc! Please post your charging voltages in either thread when you get the new battery and regulator installed.

[docc]

I have my new Ducati Energia regulator from John at EuroMotoElectrics and my new Hawker Odyssey from West Coast Batteries .

 

Interesting, some new instructions accompany each:

 

On the regulator, a sticker saying," BEWARE: DO NOT charge or jump start without disconnecting Voltage Regulator/Rectifier from the battery."

 

And another stating, "NOTE: This unit is earth/groundes thru aluminum case. Additional wire ground(s) direct to battery and/or engine strongly recommended."

 

So, we knew about the added grounds being a good idea, but pulling the regulator fuse during charging? News to me.

 

And the Odyssey manual has a new statement. Get this!

 

" SPECIAL NOTICE!

- CUSTOM V-TWIN MOTORCYCLE INSTALLATIONS USING ODYSSEY . . . PC545 . . .BATTERIES

If your V-Twin motorcycle is equipped with a standard 32 amp single phase stator/alternator, the appropriate ODYSSEY

battery may run out of charge after about 150 miles of riding. To avoid this situation we strongly recommend the

ODYSSEY Ultimizer charger model OMAX-6A-1B for existing 32 amp equipped bikes, with the charger being operated

continuously during the non-use of the bike and/or installing a 3-phase 40 amp or higher stator/alternator, especially in

new bikes."

 

This statement does not appear in the book for my last Odyssey from 2006. I'll bet the situation does not improve with a 25 amp single phase alternator . . .

 

 

 

Perhaps these are the keys to long life and battery/regulator happiness?

[Kiwi_Roy]

 

Interesting, some new instructions accompany each:

 

That's really interesting, I was wondering about the possibility of

A/ swapping the alternator stator out for a 3 phase style or

B/ simply re-winding the existing stator as a 3 phase. It would be possible to do either in theory.

 

A/ I think it would be easier to find a rotor and stator about the same overall size and machine it down to fit.

B/ I think the existing rotor has 14 coils and I assune 14 slots, it's a little bit hard to distribute 3 coils evenly across that many however I'm not a motor winder, there may be a way.

 

When my regulator was playing up I tried just using a bridge rectifier in it's place. The resulting Voltage was a way too high leading me to believe the existing alternator has lots of capacity. I will try to get my prototype regulator together over the next couple of weeks to see if it takes care of the issue. I am using 50 Amp components.

Roy

[emry]

The Odyssey batteries became very popular with the custom HD market, big cube engines and very poor charging systems (like ours). Apparently the heavy starter draw with low charging voltages, and the tendency for short rides was killing the batteries quickly, not creating repeat customers. Thus some warnings about charging.

 

As for the regualtor instructions, HUH??? Really. Properly jumping using a NON-running vehicle shouldn't pose a problem, a 12v battery is a 12v battery. Perhaps too many failures due to the running vehicle jump start, our older watercraft used to eat CDI units because of that.

 

Rewinding to a 3phase would be a mathmatical problem. Finding another stator and rotor (don't forget to re-calculate the magnet size) could be a possibilty, although perhaps a bit expensive. I think a decent regualtor, a battery that does not have special charing requirements (Yuasa or such, and the occasional overnight boost is both the most economical and practical solution.

 

Kiwiroy, on your new regulator are you copying the orginal design or using a differnt?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Kiwiroy, on your new regulator are you copying the orginal design or using a differnt?

I started my project before I pulled the first regulator apart but I did steal a few ideas after figuring out how the Energia works.

Mine is just a full bridge rectifier followed by a single SCR and a firing circuit.

The potted bridge rectifiers are good because you can bolt them straight to a heatsink without having to worry about insulation.

The original thought was to phase angle fire the SCR like they do in electric drill speed controllers but I will probably start by just skipping 1/2 cycles like the Ducati does.

As I said before as a temporary (get me home) measure I simply rectified the AC and connected it to the battery, this resulted in far too much current pushing the battery over 15 Volts so I am thinking the alternator puts out plenty of power.

The weather is way too nice to be stuck in doors so I will be out there riding instead of working on my project.

In the meantime if anyone would like to try adjusting the regulator look at the attached picture. The resistor you see at the bottom center is a trim resistor in parallel with another on the other side of board,

Simply take a sharp knife and slice out the epoxy, the worst you can do is damage the resistor. The combined resistance of this and its partner on the one I just measured is just under 500 Ohms, The resistor on circuit side is 530 and the trim resistor 4.7k. Perhaps the values of some components drifts with age/the heat.

I think increasing the value of 47k will boost the voltage setting (it's the middle of the night my brains not working)

Anyway the idea is to pull the 530 Ohm one way or another changing the reference point of zener controlling Q1

Try disconnecting 4.7k, I think the Voltage will go up, if not try a lower value say 2.2k

Something like 2.2k in series with a 5k should allow you to adjust it.

Make sure your 2 diodes are OK first or you're dead in the water.

 

PNP transistors with negative Vcc all very confusing

[gstallons]

Interesting, some new instructions accompany each:

 

That's really interesting, I was wondering about the possibility of

A/ swapping the alternator stator out for a 3 phase style or

B/ simply re-winding the existing stator as a 3 phase. It would be possible to do either in theory.

 

A/ I think it would be easier to find a rotor and stator about the same overall size and machine it down to fit.

B/ I think the existing rotor has 14 coils and I assune 14 slots, it's a little bit hard to distribute 3 coils evenly across that many however I'm not a motor winder, there may be a way.

 

When my regulator was playing up I tried just using a bridge rectifier in it's place. The resulting Voltage was a way too high leading me to believe the existing alternator has lots of capacity. I will try to get my prototype regulator together over the next couple of weeks to see if it takes care of the issue. I am using 50 Amp components.

Roy

 

 

Could you make a schematic of the single phase charging system & voltage regulator for this setup or have you done his already ?

[jrt]

. The resistor you see at the bottom center is a trim resistor in parallel with another on the other side of board,

Simply take a sharp knife and slice out the epoxy, the worst you can do is damage the resistor. The combined resistance of this and its partner on the one I just measured is just under 500 Ohms, The resistor on circuit side is 530 and the trim resistor 4.7k. Perhaps the values of some components drifts with age/the heat.

I think increasing the value of 47k will boost the voltage setting (it's the middle of the night my brains not working)

 

If you are just playing around, why not use a 30-50W trim pot? You could dial it in to your system.

[Kiwi_Roy]

. The resistor you see at the bottom center is a trim resistor in parallel with another on the other side of board,

Simply take a sharp knife and slice out the epoxy, the worst you can do is damage the resistor. The combined resistance of this and its partner on the one I just measured is just under 500 Ohms, The resistor on circuit side is 530 and the trim resistor 4.7k. Perhaps the values of some components drifts with age/the heat.

I think increasing the value of 47k will boost the voltage setting (it's the middle of the night my brains not working)

 

If you are just playing around, why not use a 30-50W trim pot? You could dial it in to your system.

I think a 2k in series with a 5k trim-pot would be more practical and a permanent fix, 1/4 Watt components will be adequate.