Regulator Rebuild

[raz]

The Odyssey should last 5-10 years if treated well. A good regulator should last 30 years or more but many seem not to. My first regulator held up for 12 years afaik.

 

Unfortunately a failing regulator can take the battery with it.

[Kiwi_Roy]

5 Years seems reasonable for a battery, my 2001 had the original Spark until late last year with a sick regulator.

The bike was stored in a container for over a year, who knows with a good regulator and better care it might still be going.

The replacement Yuasa Failed over the winter in spite of the TLC I gave it, obviously faulty manufacture, would drop to 10,5 Volts just after recharging.

I agree with Raz, the regulator is solid state, there's no reason it shouldn't last the life of the bike, it's components are undersized in my opinion.

Have you done the simple diode check, Yellow to Red?

[luhbo]

Groaning crank over again this am ...

 

Starter itself is ok? Did you check the solenoids/magnets? Does the starter get hot when it shall crank the engine?

These were the symptoms when mine went tits up. Always a weak battery, cooking hot starter engine, and, don't know why, days when everything was just fine. If you know what to look for you can even hear the loose magnets.

 

Hubert

[docc]

I'm thinking I don't know how to use my diode tester. The display reads 1564 with the leads free. One yellow shows 448 and the other 428. Reversing the leads, the 1564 read out stays unchanged checking each yellow to the red.

 

If the 1564 is the meter's battery voltage (1.564 vDC), then the readings of 0.448 and 0.428 are "about" 0.5vDC?

 

Haven't checked the starter yet, but what about these readings?

[Kiwi_Roy]

If the 1564 is the meter's battery voltage (1.564 vDC), then the readings of 0.448 and 0.428 are "about" 0.5vDC?

Yes you are correct the 1.564 is the open circuit or Diode in reverse Voltage, 0.448 0.428 are the forward bias Voltages.

What you see is very similar to what I get on mine, I think your diodes must be ok, you would see 1.564 in both directions if the diode was open circuit. Perhaps test it again after a run while it's hot

Make sure it's well grounded.

It is possible to change the regulator voltage, there's a trim resistor on the back side of the circuit board thats quite easy to uncover. My Voltage is a bit low as well so I will adjust it and post a picture.

Roy

[docc]

At this point, I would say my 4 1/2 year old Hawker, the 5 1/3 year old regulator, and the 10 year old starter are all "suboptimal." None of them are "bad," but none of them are really good either.

 

I'll try to pull the starter tomorrow for a refurbish and try to check the integrity of the magnets. I have a new reg/rec on the way and I think I'll replace the battery as well in order to restore maximum reliability and stimulate the economy.

 

Then I can tear down the old regulator and have my way with it!

[gstallons]

At this point, I would say my 4 1/2 year old Hawker, the 5 1/3 year old regulator, and the 10 year old starter are all "suboptimal." None of them are "bad," but none of them are really good either.

 

I'll try to pull the starter tomorrow for a refurbish and try to check the integrity of the magnets. I have a new reg/rec on the way and I think I'll replace the battery as well in order to restore maximum reliability and stimulate the economy.

 

Then I can tear down the old regulator and have my way with it!

 

 

To my knowledge the field magnets are permanent magnets bonded to the case. DO NOT knock these loose or break them. This is bad medicine! You can lube the starter bushings & starter drive with spray white lube.

[docc]

Yes you are correct the 1.564 is the open circuit or Diode in reverse Voltage, 0.448 0.428 are the forward bias Voltages.

What you see is very similar to what I get on mine, I think your diodes must be ok, you would see 1.564 in both directions if the diode was open circuit. Perhaps test it again after a run while it's hot

Make sure it's well grounded.

It is possible to change the regulator voltage, there's a trim resistor on the back side of the circuit board thats quite easy to uncover. My Voltage is a bit low as well so I will adjust it and post a picture.

Roy

 

"Quite easy to uncover" is an intriguing statement. Do you mean once the potting material is removed and the circuit board is out of the case?

 

The Hawker does not seem happy with mediocre recharging voltages (under 14vDC). It would be encouraging to see charging voltages in the specified range.

 

I didn't get my starter apart today for cleaning and lubrication. But, it is a 'must do' as the voltage cranking drops to about 9v.

 

Don't get me wrong, she fires right up and reading that nine volts is fleeting. Yet, I'm taking the Sport on a rather challenging Sport-Tour in eight weeks where I cannot afford a start-charge failure. Like aviation or marine craft, the well prepared motorcycle must be entirely and completely reliable.

 

Where my Sport is showing 9v cranking, 12.5 at rest, and 13.6 charging; I will be more confident with 10 v cranking, 12.8 at rest and 14.2 charging.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

:o"Look at you! Where ya goin'?" . . . "Goin' to the moon!":ninja:

[Greg Field]

Of the components listed, I sell more starters and batteries than regulators. V11 Batteries last 5-7 years, it seems. Valeo starters're junk. If you are replacing the starter, get the small Bosch unit fitted to the new Guzzis. It's cheaper than the Valeo, too.

[docc]

So, after cleaning the (original) starter and installing the new battery, charging remained 12.56, Although the cranking voltage was up to 10.9.

 

With the new regulator grounded to the engine (The other mounting bolt has a ground through the harness back to the battery), she idles at about 13v and charges at 14.25 at anything over 2000 rpm. Woo-hoo!

 

The old battery was about 70% and the regulator at about 50% capacity. Not entirely bad, but not good either.

 

I probably shot my Odyssey in the foot using too low a charge voltage both by the regulator (at 13.5) and my 1.5 amp trickle charger which tends to operate below the 14.1 volt optimum for the Odyssey. I suppose I'll break down and buy the correct charger.

 

And then there is the warning in the literature for the battery saying the battery should be kept on the charger if the bike has anything less than a 40 amp 3-phase alternator. And the warning on the regulator saying the regulator should be disconnected during charging.

[pasotibbs]

So, after cleaning the (original) starter and installing the new battery, charging remained 12.56, Although the cranking voltage was up to 10.9.

 

With the new regulator grounded to the engine (The other mounting bolt has a ground through the harness back to the battery), she idles at about 13v and charges at 14.25 at anything over 2000 rpm. Woo-hoo!

 

The old battery was about 70% and the regulator at about 50% capacity. Not entirely bad, but not good either.

 

I probably shot my Odyssey in the foot using too low a charge voltage both by the regulator (at 13.5) and my 1.5 amp trickle charger which tends to operate below the 14.1 volt optimum for the Odyssey. I suppose I'll break down and buy the correct charger.

 

And then there is the warning in the literature for the battery saying the battery should be kept on the charger if the bike has anything less than a 40 amp 3-phase alternator. And the warning on the regulator saying the regulator should be disconnected during charging.

Don't throw the old battery, there was an article in the MG GB owners club magazine about repairing them, I tried it on my old Spark and amazingly it now works!!

The article said to remove the cover from the battery, remove the rubber caps from the cells and using a syringe keep adding distilled water to them until the matting is visibly moist(it can take hours to get to this point as you add water, it soaks into the matting, you add more water etc)

Once the matting is moist suck out any excess with the syringe and charge the battery(the details of the charging I can't remember but its something like 10% Amp Hours for 1 Hour ? )

I didn't follow the charging instructions (I didn't expect it to work if I'm honest) but just stuck my intelligent battery charger on it and left it for a couple of days, when I checked it seemed better so I figured I'd replace the dead battery in an old portable jump starter and use it for powering 12v stuff in the garage.

A few months later and the regulator goes and takes out my battery so I get the jump starter and it starts the bike no problem, I really was not expecting that !!,Ok I think I'll take the battery out of the jump starter and put it on the bike while I fix the regulator rather than wait until the new battery arrives. I replace the regulator and the bike starts easily every time I try, the battery now lives on my Ducati and even though it isn't trickle charged (the bike hasn't been used for 2 years)manages to start it every few months.

I need to attempt to repair my other battery but as the regulator shorted out it was totally drained of power (0v when checked) it stuggles to hold 12v now (it gives about 2 seconds of cranking before the solenoid just clicks)so I don't expect it will ever fully recover, but who knows ?

[Kiwi_Roy]

No, you don't need to pull the circuit board, just uncover the trim resistor thats on the exposed side

the one you see in the picture bottom center.

If you remove an inch square section should be enough.

I will do mine and report back, I have been meaning to tweak it up a bit for a while anyway.

[Kiwi_Roy]

And then there is the warning in the literature for the battery saying the battery should be kept on the charger if the bike has anything less than a 40 amp 3-phase alternator. And the warning on the regulator saying the regulator should be disconnected during charging.

Why don't they just come out and say "NOT SUITABLE FOR GUZZIES"

[Kiwi_Roy]

Update:

OK, today I pulled my regulator off and exposed the trim resistor.

I unsoldered the resistor and found it to be 2.5 kOhms (2,500 Ohms). The main resistor, the one you can't see is 540 Ohms.

I wasn't sure which way I needed to go so in place of the 2.5 kOhm resistor I connected a 1 k fixed resistor in series with a 5 k pot so I could try different values.

It turned out that reducing the resistance increases the voltage. Preliminary testing shows that I get a good range of adjustment with a 1kOhm fixed resistor in series

with a 500 Ohm pot. I extended the circuit with a couple of wires and mounted the pot behind the horn out of sight.

I think the ideal arrangement would be a 1 kOhm fixed resistor in series with a small 20 turn trimpots also 1 k it would be easy easy to drill a hole in the case and have it exposed at the front to allow for easy adjustment. I couldn't find one in my junk box or that's what I would have done. Alternately you can just try different values of fixed resistor until you get the right one then solder it to the board and cover up.

 

Don't be tempted to use a resistor less than 1 k thinking that your charging will be better, the battery needs a while to adapt to the new voltage and you don't want to cook it.

 

Note: The damper mounting bolt is a good place to mount your regulator while you mess with it.

 

Finally,

Make sure both your diodes measure OK, 0.4 - 0.6 Volts on diode tester.

Make sure the regulator is well grounded to the chassis

 

Hope this is of interest.

Roy

[gstallons]

Update:

OK, today I pulled my regulator off and exposed the trim resistor.

I unsoldered the resistor and found it to be 2.5 kOhms (2,500 Ohms). The main resistor, the one you can't see is 540 Ohms.

I wasn't sure which way I needed to go so in place of the 2.5 kOhm resistor I connected a 1 k fixed resistor in series with a 5 k pot so I could try different values.

It turned out that reducing the resistance increases the voltage. Preliminary testing shows that I get a good range of adjustment with a 1kOhm fixed resistor in series

with a 500 Ohm pot. I extended the circuit with a couple of wires and mounted the pot behind the horn out of sight.

I think the ideal arrangement would be a 1 kOhm fixed resistor in series with a small 20 turn trimpots also 1 k it would be easy easy to drill a hole in the case and have it exposed at the front to allow for easy adjustment. I couldn't find one in my junk box or that's what I would have done. Alternately you can just try different values of fixed resistor until you get the right one then solder it to the board and cover up.

 

Don't be tempted to use a resistor less than 1 k thinking that your charging will be better, the battery needs a while to adapt to the new voltage and you don't want to cook it.

 

Note: The damper mounting bolt is a good place to mount your regulator while you mess with it.

 

Finally,

Make sure both your diodes measure OK, 0.4 - 0.6 Volts on diode tester.

Make sure the regulator is well grounded to the chassis

 

Hope this is of interest.

Roy

 

Do you think you will leave your innovation(s) on the bike permenantly ?