Go water-cooled. What! What?What!

[ScuRoo]

Always kinda thought GUZZI shoulda had their name on the motus V4.

Same layout (with shaft), watercooled, grunt, noise, simplicity of design...

natural path to evolve along is what I thought, oh well, hey ho!

[hoytstaab]

I'm sorry, but while a transverse V twin cylinder engine may not be the perfect engine package it is better then Ducati's L twin package. And look how successful that has been. The pro's and con's of Guzzi engine layout have little to do with the fact that Guzzi has been trying to go out of business since 1921.

That is a much larger issue with causes that predate the transverse V layout.

 

 

In this I must disagree. The Guzzi engine forces the rider's weight to the rear, unless you make the bike very tall to get knee clearance over the cylinders. Or, they could dry-sump it and lower the engine. Neither of those would work in the modern marketplace, though.

 

Also, Guzzi was once a prosperous company. Many things contributed to the decline. Among them are an engine architecture that forced so many compromises on the bikes. No one loves that engine more than I do, but it's time to move on to something better, IMO. Yes, a V-8 might be nice. There are many other options, though.

 

 

Good points. There is a lot to be said for what BMW is doing: successfully adding numerous engine configurations, while continuing the boxer heritage with zero diluted affect*...

 

*not only has the boxer been developed for incredible performance (e.g. HP2 Sport), but BMW could introduce a 30s-50s era-looking boxer bike that could sell madly in a "classic touring" line.

[pasotibbs]

I'm sorry, but while a transverse V twin cylinder engine may not be the perfect engine package it is better then Ducati's L twin package. And look how successful that has been. The pro's and con's of Guzzi engine layout have little to do with the fact that Guzzi has been trying to go out of business since 1921.

That is a much larger issue with causes that predate the transverse V layout.

 

 

In this I must disagree. The Guzzi engine forces the rider's weight to the rear, unless you make the bike very tall to get knee clearance over the cylinders. Or, they could dry-sump it and lower the engine. Neither of those would work in the modern marketplace, though.

 

Also, Guzzi was once a prosperous company. Many things contributed to the decline. Among them are an engine architecture that forced so many compromises on the bikes. No one loves that engine more than I do, but it's time to move on to something better, IMO. Yes, a V-8 might be nice. There are many other options, though.

 

 

Good points. There is a lot to be said for what BMW is doing: successfully adding numerous engine configurations, while continuing the boxer heritage with zero diluted affect*...

 

*not only has the boxer been developed for incredible performance (e.g. HP2 Sport), but BMW could introduce a 30s-50s era-looking boxer bike that could sell madly in a "classic touring" line.

I believe BMW tried to get rid of the boxer when the they brought out the "flying brick" K series bikes but found sales fell so the boxer was brought back ?

[Baldini]

I believe BMW tried to get rid of the boxer when the they brought out the "flying brick" K series bikes but found sales fell so the boxer was brought back ?

That's what I recall too. We don't necessarily want the "most efficient", "fastest", "smoothest" or the best weight distribution (& I agree that is one of the Guzzi's worst characteristics, & presumably why they moved the alternator back up top in the Carc bikes?)or whatever. Liking one bike over another is related not only to it's spec & performance, but to it's looks & "character" & to the history & image of the manufacturer. And - being human we have irrational preferences.

KB

[hoytstaab]

"Liking one bike over another is related not only to it's spec & performance, but to it's looks & "character" & to the history & image of the manufacturer. And - being human we have irrational preferences.

KB "

 

agreed. Many of the same reasons I ride Guzzis. The performance of the engine is still good enough to perform great on roads that matter most. (would be something else in a streetable MGS-02).

 

As far as the boxer being discontinued...just goes to show you "management" doesn't get it right all the time. Was that top managment team the same one BMW has now? Look how many boxer-based bikes have been sold since then. While at the same time, BMW could out-do HD in the "classic/nostalgia" line if they wanted. Not in total sales, but in authentic look of a prior era. The boxer can be used effectively alongside many of their other engines/bikes. Guzzi could do the same with their line.

[belfastguzzi]

Looks like that (Dorsoduro) 1200 V twin is nearing the sales floor

 

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2010/08/aprilia-dorsoduro-1200-the-worst-kept-secret/

[Anthro]

When I got my Guzzi I was coming back to motorcycles after many years. I choose a Guzzi because I always wanted one since the early 80's. I wanted this bike to be meaningful to me. A SV1000 suzuki made more sense, but it did not fit the psychological picture. But it was not only the transverse Vtwin engine, If Guzzi line up showed something like the MotoMorini 9 1/2, it would have done for me...

 

After totaling my beautiful California Sports, I was ready to buy a Griso, but medical bills forced me to delay and think about some more, so I ended buying a Aprilia Tuono 1000r. The beast looks a little like a Jap, but the handling is just amazing, shifting the fun factor from the exotic look and sensation to the ride.

 

If Guzzi were to make something that combines both (a la Morini) it would get me really exited.

 

Anthro

[Tom M]

If Guzzi were to make something that combines both (a la Morini) it would get me really exited.

 

That makes two of us Anthro. If Aprilia stuck that Dorsoduro 1200 twin in a Corsaro-like motorcycle and gave it a belt drive I'd be very interested, regardless of whether or not they called it a Guzzi. Of course if they did call it a Guzzi it would need to be built in Mandello. A half-faired version like the V11 LeMans with state of the art suspension would really get me excited as long as they didn't go too far with the Tuono sci-fi styling. I've read that the Tuono is going to get the Aprilia V4 engine next year so giving the twin cylinder road bike market to Guzzi might work for them.

[belfastguzzi]

If Guzzi were to make something that combines both (a la Morini) it would get me really exited.

 

That makes two of us Anthro. If Aprilia stuck that Dorsoduro 1200 twin in a.... A half-faired version like the V11 LeMans with state of the art suspension would really get me excited as long as they didn't go too far with the Tuono sci-fi styling. I've read that the Tuono is going to get the Aprilia V4 engine next year so giving the twin cylinder road bike market to Guzzi might work for them.

It can only make sense. Chances are that Guzzi will do the opposite, taking the worst of both: slap sci-fi styling on an ancient lumbering beast of a drivetrain. What's going to attract and hold the much-needed new customers (not necessarily new to biking but looking for a new bike / changing from another make) – one of the Guzzi 1200s (even if further tarted-up) or the snappy Dorso 1200? I reckon that, side by side, the big Aprilia twin will shift from the showroom while the Guzzi is still sitting there a year later.

Certainly I'll not be swapping the 750 Dorso for a V7 'Classic'.

[dark_bike]

Water-coold or air-cooled is probably the least of their worries. THE bugbear of Guzzi and other Italian manufacturers, be it cars or motorcycles (their coffee machines are very good though;-)) is poor quality and poor customer support. I bought a new Guzzi only once, a 750 Targa, and of the twelve months I had it, not one went by without a visit to the dealer, and none of the problems were permanently solved. The build quality was in one word: crap. After that I swore never to buy a new one again. I refuse to pay a lot of money for a bike and then also have to do the product development. Quite few people who would buy a Guzzi shirk back because of their reputation for unreliability. And lets face it, our bikes only become bombproof one you've ditched most of what the Guzzi purchasing department put on. But a manufacturer cant live on selling second-hand bikes, they have to find people mad enough to buy them new.

so, to go back to the original question, a water-cooled, poorly put together Guzzi isnt going to work either.

The big transverse V2 is the distinctive feature of these bikes (they made parallel twins as well and they look like poor copies of Hondas) and if BMW can update their boxers successfully why shouldnt Guzzi?

I think more people were prepared to put up with the idiosyncrasies of Guzzis is they were reliable from the start and didnt need to spend weeks at a dealer because of poor parts supply. You see that with Ducati. They're much better built these days but havent fundamentally changed, and they sell like hot buns. The problem for Guzzi is that is has been owned for the past decades by companies that didn't give a toss about the marque. Begs the question why Piaggio bought them...

I'm sure that with a some hundredes million Euros it can be done (6 or 7 ) . They just need to have a concept and do it.

 

ha thats better, what a little rant cant do ;-)

 

oh by the way, I bought another Guzzi...again not a new one ;-)

 

tom