Mid-ride cut-out

[docc]

On 8/12/2010 at 3:06 AM, pasotibbs said:

On 8/11/2010 at 2:01 PM, ScuRoo said:

On 8/11/2010 at 10:45 AM, mikie said:

Disclaimer: I'm not very mechanically inclined, so I'm just speaking of what was done by my dealer. I used to have a 2002 LeMans, and it had the same problem that you're having. With no warning it'd just cut off at various speeds, sometimes quite dangerously while on a freeway. I had upgraded the relays, fiddled with the relay base, tried the sidestand switch disconnect, and yet this still kept occurring. One day while on a ride it kept cutting out repeatedly and only restarted when it felt like doing so. With much frustration I rerouted to the dealership and left it there. They replaced the ECU (thankfully under warranty), and after that the problem never happened again. Of course, YMMV.

 

Oh, crap! Now you're scaring me a bit Mikie as it's outta warranty! Hope pasotibbs story fits my bike $wise! Like Pasotibbs, I jiggled that kill switch a number of times and I kinda got a sense(errant?) that it had more to do with subsequent restarts than anything else I'd wiggled! (stopped near a bush, 'mose well drain me sump!)

 

I getting a sense that this seems to be a fairly common problem though throughout the V11 years. I was hoping that being one of the "last of the V11's" things would've been a teeny bit sorted than the early examples. Oh, I forgot, it was still made by the same fella's - probably after lunch.

If a cycling the kill switch seems to work I'd say relay or kill switch contacts are likely to be the cause.

That's not bad thinking, and the run switch is pretty easy to open and clean with a contact cleaner; worth doing! Yet, a couple of us found that repeatedly re-energizing the relays would finally wake them up.

 

Again, cranking depends on current through the run switch. If she cranks, the run switch is passing current from either the side stand switch or the neutral switch/middle relay.

 

Also, if Relay 5 has played up, it's worth checking the yellow wires from the stator under the alternator cover to be sure one isn't coming apart. I've seen two of these that kept showing up as relay failure.

 

 

 

[ScuRoo]

Promised update following service yesterday. So, from at the beginning:

Bike would'nt start. "Bugga". Went thru the wiggling & jiggling of wires. Eventually - Boom! We're good to go...

 

So, halfway (gone about 5 miles) to destination bike cut dead as a maggot. Wiggle, jiggle, nada. Wiggle, nada. Jiggle, nada. Half an hour of prayer and fingers crossed went before I was convinced my usual routine just was'nt going to do the trick this time.

So I swapped no. 5(ecu?) & no. 4(pump?) and immediately - BOOM! Like nuthin' was wrong, the cheeky 'lil sod.

 

The Guzzi dealership did'nt have any relay's in stock (i kid u !) so at end of service rode home with relays in situ as per swap and without any drama. During servicing mechanic took exhaust off because of cross-pipe not allowing him access. Is this unusual?

Anyhow, rang Corsa Italiana this morning and they are sending me out two bosch relays.

 

Taking bike away this friday to 80's Rewind festival at Henley-on-thames. It's a wife thang, so I'll be looking to get away (listening to Rick Astley was'nt in our marriage vows) for rides to clear head so will get to see if problem has been resolved.

[docc]

That's good news! Relay upgrades are cheap and often effective.

 

BTW: Relay 4 - ECU, Relay 5 - Pump/coils

 

Again, check those stator wires under the alternator cover!

[raz]

Have a look at the sockets too. Blow away dust and old contact grease with compressed air, spray with contact cleaner (not 556 or the likes) and put a little vaseline (battery pole grease) on them before installing the relays.

 

Especially if the problem comes back with new relays. I can't see why it wouldn't.

[Scura R]

Let`s hope the problem is solved.

 

On my California Jackal all the relays were the same, and I changed the Siemens with GEI`s.

 

When I got my v11, it had Tyco relays in nr 1(031131A(V23074) A1001-A403) and 2( 031222A(V23074) A1001-A402), and 3,4 and 5 had Siemens(the one that sometimes is supposed to be bad, productnr ending on 73 I believe).

 

I bought a set of 5 GEI relays just to have some as back-up for the v11. When I tried them, I found out that the Tyco in nr. 2(counting from front) only has 4 pins, and has a different productnumber from the Tyco in nr 1: . I tried to use GEI`s on all 5(nr.2 has 5 pinholes but the relay only 4 pins), but then I blew a 15a fuse. So now I use GEI in all but nr.2, where i use the Tyco.

 

Probably my mistake, but I believe I read somewhere here that many v11 owners bought the GEI`s(or other brands) to get rid of the Siemens, and I never read anything about nr. 2 relay being different. Maby the first series is different from newer bikes?

 

Nice bike by the way! So, we can start the Scura R registry maby?

 

If your red seat, like on my Scura R, is faded from the sun and is now starting to get orange, but only where it`s not covered by the cowl, I found out it is possible to order a new complete genuine red seat from Moto Guzzi on special order for Euro 129,- + euro 23,- for shipping ( ref. 01460581, stucchiluigi.it).

[Kiwi_Roy]

So I swapped no. 5(ecu?) & no. 4(pump?) and immediately - BOOM! Like nuthin' was wrong, the cheeky 'lil sod.

The 4 & 5 relays are both essential for the bike to run and they both use the same contacts so there is no reason why a bad relay will run in one spot and not the other. next time use say 2,3 for 4,5

I strongly suspect it's a bad connection in the base, pulling the relays gave it a bit of a scrape, as soon as you get a chance pull the connectors one at a time and tighten them up. I can't stress enough the importance of having some grease on the contacts, it protects against oxidization (corrosion), get a tube of vaseline from the chemist.

I have 5 pin Omrons in all spots.

[jimbemotumbo]

Have a look at the sockets too. Blow away dust and old contact grease with compressed air, spray with contact cleaner (not 556 or the likes) and put a little vaseline (battery pole grease) on them before installing the relays.

 

Especially if the problem comes back with new relays. I can't see why it wouldn't.

 

 

 

+1 to Raz.

 

Even if the relay change fixed you up, you need to spend some time cleaning the contacts and applying a bit of dielectric grease. Trust me, the problem WILL be back if the contacts are nasty.

 

Ride Safe!

[Kiwi_Roy]

When I got my v11, it had Tyco relays in nr 1(031131A(V23074) A1001-A403) and 2( 031222A(V23074) A1001-A402), and 3,4 and 5 had Siemens(the one that sometimes is supposed to be bad, productnr ending on 73 I believe).

I bought a set of 5 GEI relays just to have some as back-up for the v11. When I tried them, I found out that the Tyco in nr. 2(counting from front) only has 4 pins, and has a different productnumber from the Tyco in nr 1: . I tried to use GEI`s on all 5(nr.2 has 5 pinholes but the relay only 4 pins), but then I blew a 15a fuse. So now I use GEI in all but nr.2, where i use the Tyco.

 

The 5 pin relays are a direct replacement for the 4 pins, but only the starter relay uses the 5th pin.

Like yours mine had several 4 pins because that's all they require so they save some money but when I

replaced I used all 5 pin Omrons in mine from these guys.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=Z2247-ND

Click on the "Datasheet" it will give you all the specs.

They have another relay Z2001ND that has sealed contacts but that's overkill in my opinion better to use the money on a couple of spares.

The 2 critical relays are 4 & 5 (for the motor to run), the others are just for non essential items like starter relay 1 and headlight relay 2, neutral switch / kickstand relay 3.

[Scura R]

Looks like there is something wrong with my nr 2 relay base then, it will not take the 5 pin GEI, blown 15a fuse two times.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Looks like there is something wrong with my nr 2 relay base then, it will not take the 5 pin GEI, blown 15a fuse two times.

When you say it won't take the relay do you mean physicaly can't plug it in or does it cause the fuse to blow?

My No 2 has no wire on the 5th pin, in fact it doesn't even have a contact.

Have you removed the bases to see if theres a wire in the 87A position?

I suspect that some bikes might have the No 1 & 2 switched but that shouldn't change things.

Is your headlight behaving normally, turns off with cranking.

Perhaps in some countries the wiring is different, here in Canada we don't have a headlight switch on the bars.

Roy

Test Point Layout August 18 2010.pdf