Newbie to Moto Guzzi - Oldie to most stuff

[Motocomiot]

Hi

As I am a Brit I have been patriotically been buying the Hinckley made Triumphs for 15 years and have loved most of them but the Thruxton I have is just too slow I'm afraid soooo......

I just bought a V11 Sport - fantastic - love it - must be 20 years since I rode a 'Guzzi - how did they make the weight disappear ? !Same way Triumph did I guess....

Anyway to get to the point:

The Tacho does not work - (it wobbles the needle to 500 rpm then gives up), Fuel low light, charging light and oil light are also out although the Hi beam, Indicator and Neutral idiot lights are working......I am assuming that at least Oil and Charge would come on with ignition on before starting ? - bulbs are OK by the way and everything else works too including the light in the Tacho itself...

I read a few threads and electrical faults don't seem uncommon but are fairly specific ? - I replaced the 5 Siemens relays opposite the fusebox with Omron ones as a matter of course as I have come across those Siemens things before and don't like the little suckers....

Before I dive in with multimeter between my teeth and snipe nosed pliers in hand........has anyone else had this problem......?

 

Cheers

[pasotibbs]

Hi

As I am a Brit I have been patriotically been buying the Hinckley made Triumphs for 15 years and have loved most of them but the Thruxton I have is just too slow I'm afraid soooo......

I just bought a V11 Sport - fantastic - love it - must be 20 years since I rode a 'Guzzi - how did they make the weight disappear ? !Same way Triumph did I guess....

Anyway to get to the point:

The Tacho does not work - (it wobbles the needle to 500 rpm then gives up), Fuel low light, charging light and oil light are also out although the Hi beam, Indicator and Neutral idiot lights are working......I am assuming that at least Oil and Charge would come on with ignition on before starting ? - bulbs are OK by the way and everything else works too including the light in the Tacho itself...

I read a few threads and electrical faults don't seem uncommon but are fairly specific ? - I replaced the 5 Siemens relays opposite the fusebox with Omron ones as a matter of course as I have come across those Siemens things before and don't like the little suckers....

Before I dive in with multimeter between my teeth and snipe nosed pliers in hand........has anyone else had this problem......?

 

Cheers

Welcome

I'm not sure what the cause of your fault is for sure(it may be more than one) but the UK climate is tough on the wiring connectors under the tank !!

I'd have the tank off and clean up all the connectors you can find and go from there.

The Red/Green wire from the Reg/Rec is prone to corrosion so check for that also as this will stop the battery charging.

Also if you have a Sachs Shock then check the lower mounting as these have been known to crack if exposed to corrosive conditions and its worth extending the hugger to prevent this.

[GuzziMoto]

The tach issue could be as simple as the cable is broken or a connection is not tight. That is where I would start.

The electrical stuff is harder. I have only had the issue with the relays, no other electrical problems yet. Get an electrical schematic if you don't already have one. I seem to recall an issue with a common bad ground for some of the instrument lights,I don't remember which. Remember you need both power at the light and a return path, usually a ground.

Also, you replaced the relays, but did you inspect the terminals they plug into? Some have had issues with the connections getting corroded.

[Kiwi_Roy]

On my bike the charging, oil & fuel light and most importantly the tacho electronics are all powered from the N/O contact of the headlight relay, Relay 2, this also goes to the voltage regulator and horn.

It might be that the tacho can go part scale with just the pulses from the ECU and no +12V

The wiring may be different for UK, can you scan the schematic in the back of your manual, I would like to see it.

 

A few troubleshooting questions

Does the horn work

Does the light come on when you turn the key on and go off while cranking

Is the bike charging battery ok (not going flat)

Roy

[raz]

Maybe a bad grounding somewhere causes all of the problems. Try running an extra ground wire from tacho housing to the engine block, for a starter.

 

Edit: no, it must be a +12 missing like Roy said.

[Motocomiot]

On my bike the charging, oil & fuel light and most importantly the tacho electronics are all powered from the N/O contact of the headlight relay, Relay 2, this also goes to the voltage regulator and horn.

It might be that the tacho can go part scale with just the pulses from the ECU and no +12V

The wiring may be different for UK, can you scan the schematic in the back of your manual, I would like to see it.

 

A few troubleshooting questions

Does the horn work

Does the light come on when you turn the key on and go off while cranking

Is the bike charging battery ok (not going flat)

Roy

Hi

I'll scan the schematic when I find the thing

Horn works

none of the above idiot lights come on at all

charging is fine - I have run it for a week and the battery is cranking away just fine

Thanks for the help - I will investigate relay 2 - it sounds like the most likely issue - I will test contact tomorrow

Thanks for all help so far......

[Motocomiot]

On my bike the charging, oil & fuel light and most importantly the tacho electronics are all powered from the N/O contact of the headlight relay, Relay 2, this also goes to the voltage regulator and horn.

It might be that the tacho can go part scale with just the pulses from the ECU and no +12V

The wiring may be different for UK, can you scan the schematic in the back of your manual, I would like to see it.

 

A few troubleshooting questions

Does the horn work

Does the light come on when you turn the key on and go off while cranking

Is the bike charging battery ok (not going flat)

Roy

Hi

I found the manual (just moved house)

attached is scanned wiring diag. - the scan isn't too good - I'll try again tomorrow...

[Kiwi_Roy]

Hi

I'll scan the schematic when I find the thing

Horn works

none of the above idiot lights come on at all

charging is fine - I have run it for a week and the battery is cranking away just fine

Thanks for the help - I will investigate relay 2 - it sounds like the most likely issue - I will test contact tomorrow

Thanks for all help so far......

I'm not sure if your R2 does what ours do, that's why I asked for the diagram

Here in Canada the headlight is permanently on (we don't have a light switch), Relay 1 breaks the circuit while cranking, Relay 2 powers the indicator lights, headlight, tacho, horn and reference for the voltage reg.

I'm sure yours has some suttle differences.

Geez, we need spell checking!

[docc]

Hi, Motocomiot!

 

Lot's of good advice so far (and so fast!). It would be first to consider the Relay 2 ("headlight relay"), but if the headlight and horns work, and the regulator is charging above the battery voltage , it more likely the connector from the headlamp shell across the headset and found under the tank. The stud mounts for the tach can loosen and compromise the ground path. They are quite easy to tighten and anchor with a proper epoxy.

 

Tools may make the man, but a good multi-meter makes the V11 owner!

 

 

 

[Kiwi_Roy]

As I suspected there is quite a variance in the wiring however it's probably all the same on the dash.

Take your diagram and compare to attached. Follow the R/N (red / black) wire I have highlighted back to it's source, the headlight relay in my case.

What Docc says, Another thing to look for would be a break in the red / black wire where it flexes at the headlight area, it shouldn't bend sharply in one spot.

Remove the cover from the speedo / tacho and look for +12V on the Red/black wire at the tacho.

You should also have a red / black wire at the voltage regulator with +12V if it's missing at the tacho chances are it's broken between the regulator and there, it goes through the large connector on right side of tank. Its a pretty small wire from memory so it's also possible it had a short and burned off. The idiot lamp holders can easily short out, very poor design IMHO.

[Motocomiot]

As I suspected there is quite a variance in the wiring however it's probably all the same on the dash.

Take your diagram and compare to attached. Follow the R/N (red / black) wire I have highlighted back to it's source, the headlight relay in my case.

What Docc says, Another thing to look for would be a break in the red / black wire where it flexes at the headlight area, it shouldn't bend sharply in one spot.

Remove the cover from the speedo / tacho and look for +12V on the Red/black wire at the tacho.

You should also have a red / black wire at the voltage regulator with +12V if it's missing at the tacho chances are it's broken between the regulator and there, it goes through the large connector on right side of tank. Its a pretty small wire from memory so it's also possible it had a short and burned off. The idiot lamp holders can easily short out, very poor design IMHO.

Hi

Thanks for that - R2 tests out OK and it's connectors were sound so I went for the +12 option - tacho had nothing but regulator was +12.2 so I ran a new wire (slightly sturdier)

Result - All working perfectly !

Thanks for your help - really impressed with this forum

[Motocomiot]

Hi, Motocomiot!

 

Lot's of good advice so far (and so fast!). It would be first to consider the Relay 2 ("headlight relay"), but if the headlight and horns work, and the regulator is charging above the battery voltage , it more likely the connector from the headlamp shell across the headset and found under the tank. The stud mounts for the tach can loosen and compromise the ground path. They are quite easy to tighten and anchor with a proper epoxy.

 

Tools may make the man, but a good multi-meter makes the V11 owner!

 

Here is a simple flow chart that relates the functions to the components:

Hi Docc

You have a great forum here - I seem to have fixed my problem within a few hours so many thanks to all who posted !

I am going to undertake a beefing up as some of the cabling and connectors are horribly fragile . it looks ugly under the tank !....lovely motorcycle though

cheers again

Motocomiot

[pasotibbs]

Hi, Motocomiot!

 

Lot's of good advice so far (and so fast!). It would be first to consider the Relay 2 ("headlight relay"), but if the headlight and horns work, and the regulator is charging above the battery voltage , it more likely the connector from the headlamp shell across the headset and found under the tank. The stud mounts for the tach can loosen and compromise the ground path. They are quite easy to tighten and anchor with a proper epoxy.

 

Tools may make the man, but a good multi-meter makes the V11 owner!

 

Here is a simple flow chart that relates the functions to the components:

Hi Docc

You have a great forum here - I seem to have fixed my problem within a few hours so many thanks to all who posted !

I am going to undertake a beefing up as some of the cabling and connectors are horribly fragile . it looks ugly under the tank !....lovely motorcycle though

cheers again

Motocomiot

Well done,glad it was an easy fix !!

Remember to check that rear shock (see here )

[Kiwi_Roy]

This was an interesting problem

 

...... The Tacho does not work - (it wobbles the needle to 500 rpm then gives up), Fuel low light, charging light and oil light are also out although the Hi beam, Indicator and Neutral idiot lights are working......I am assuming that at least Oil and Charge would come on with ignition on before starting ? - bulbs are OK by the way and everything else works too including the light in the Tacho itself..

 

For posterity,

Did you actually pinpoint the problem, broken wire, burnt wire?

How did you fix, just jumper around or join a new length in?

 

BTW, to find a break in the conductor under the insulation pull hard, the insulation will stretch at the break,

If it was a broken wire the chances are some of the others in the loom are getting ready to snap also.

Wherever wires flex like the headlight area it's best to have them gently twist over several inches rather than bend in one spot, copper work hardens and becomes brittle with bending.

Glad you're up and running again.

[Motocomiot]

This was an interesting problem

 

...... The Tacho does not work - (it wobbles the needle to 500 rpm then gives up), Fuel low light, charging light and oil light are also out although the Hi beam, Indicator and Neutral idiot lights are working......I am assuming that at least Oil and Charge would come on with ignition on before starting ? - bulbs are OK by the way and everything else works too including the light in the Tacho itself..

 

For posterity,

Did you actually pinpoint the problem, broken wire, burnt wire?

How did you fix, just jumper around or join a new length in?

 

BTW, to find a break in the conductor under the insulation pull hard, the insulation will stretch at the break,

If it was a broken wire the chances are some of the others in the loom are getting ready to snap also.

Wherever wires flex like the headlight area it's best to have them gently twist over several inches rather than bend in one spot, copper work hardens and becomes brittle with bending.

Glad you're up and running again.

Hi

The red/black wire is broken/burnt somewhere although I haven't found out exactly where just yet - I just ran another wire as an interim fix but I am planning to find the break this weekend while replacing some other iffy looking connectors/wiring under the tank - I was also planning a destruction test (pass increasing amperage via a serial motor and rheostat) on a sample of the tacho/dash wires as they are so fine I suspect they get hardened on overload before any fuse blows which will lead to easy vibration breakage later - I will update with findings in a couple of days....

I think I may replace a few things like the regulator/rectifier on general fragility grounds as well - I have a few odd japanese things knocking around the garage...

Thanks again for your help..