2003 V11 with aftermarket crossover?

[Chet in MI]

I've searched the forum and haven't found anything that specifically addresses this (Or I missed it. Sorry if that's the case!!), so here goes. Since the 2003 LeMans has a front crossover, is there still a benefit to adding a Stucchi or Mistral x-over? I'm guessing the answer is probably yes, but it seems counter-intuitive to my simple and ignorant way of seeing the issue

 

Any takers out there?

 

Thanks!

[Skeeve]

I've searched the forum and haven't found anything that specifically addresses this (Or I missed it. Sorry if that's the case!!), so here goes. Since the 2003 LeMans has a front crossover, is there still a benefit to adding a Stucchi or Mistral x-over? I'm guessing the answer is probably yes, but it seems counter-intuitive to my simple and ignorant way of seeing the issue...

 

Short answer: Yes.

 

Long form:

 

Technically, there is no front x-over: there's a front balance pipe, but we all know what you mean.

 

The stock crossover is anything but: it is so big that it is in reality a pre-muffler/expansion chamber. It works great for increasing the top-end output [as witnessed by several dyno graphs of the stock system vs. aftermarket w/o extensive fueling witchery [which is a level playing-field only because Guzzi/Aprillia did such a lackluster job on the original V11 F.I. map]] Anyway, you can thank Dr. John & his original "colostomy bag" x-over on the Daytona/1100Spot/Centauro lines from the 90s, that led the way in development of the later V11 pre-muffler.

 

Interesting side note: while it might have made the most sense to put the cat. converter in the x-over & make a "world bike" as far smog certification goes, MG didn't, & chose to put the cats in the cans & only put those on the bikes going to the countries that required it [i think Switzerland was one of the 1st, fwiw.] This is actually a VGT, since it means that anyone w/ the cats in their cans stopping up their exhaust is easily able to replace them w/ aftermarket performance cans.

 

Anyway, the front balance pipe has been derided as largely cosmetic, harkening back to the original 1pc headers from the original LeMans back in the 70s; thus its appearance on the V11 bikes w/ the intro of the V11 LeMans in '02. Alternatively, it might have been a band-aid applied by the factory to deal with the large hole in the powerband at the 3.5k-4.5k rpm range caused largely by the poor fuel map [not entirely Guzzi's fault, since excessive leanness at idle is a primary facet of most smog regulations world wide.] Persons with far greater technical expertise and Guzzi modification experience than I have stated unequivocally that the bike runs almost identically with or without the "front x-over"/balance pipe, so that tends to lend wt. to the "traditional cosmetics" argument for its introduction.

 

Me personally, I think it looks great, and it *should* produce some power-band widening f/x, given a properly designed main x-over. The Stucchi unit seems to be the best in that regard, but the Mistral [again, technically a balance pipe, since there's insufficient area/volume to even begin mixing the exhaust gases and routing them thru both mufflers...] is well thought of because it provides a beefier mid-range (while admittedly sacrificing some top-end output) but supports fitment of a center-stand, while the Stucchi does not.

 

Hope this hasn't been hopelessly confusing!

 

[Chet in MI]

I've searched the forum and haven't found anything that specifically addresses this (Or I missed it. Sorry if that's the case!!), so here goes. Since the 2003 LeMans has a front crossover, is there still a benefit to adding a Stucchi or Mistral x-over? I'm guessing the answer is probably yes, but it seems counter-intuitive to my simple and ignorant way of seeing the issue...

 

Short answer: Yes.

 

Long form:

 

Technically, there is no front x-over: there's a front balance pipe, but we all know what you mean.

 

The stock crossover is anything but: it is so big that it is in reality a pre-muffler/expansion chamber. It works great for increasing the top-end output [as witnessed by several dyno graphs of the stock system vs. aftermarket w/o extensive fueling witchery [which is a level playing-field only because Guzzi/Aprillia did such a lackluster job on the original V11 F.I. map]] Anyway, you can thank Dr. John & his original "colostomy bag" x-over on the Daytona/1100Spot/Centauro lines from the 90s, that led the way in development of the later V11 pre-muffler.

 

Interesting side note: while it might have made the most sense to put the cat. converter in the x-over & make a "world bike" as far smog certification goes, MG didn't, & chose to put the cats in the cans & only put those on the bikes going to the countries that required it [i think Switzerland was one of the 1st, fwiw.] This is actually a VGT, since it means that anyone w/ the cats in their cans stopping up their exhaust is easily able to replace them w/ aftermarket performance cans.

 

Anyway, the front balance pipe has been derided as largely cosmetic, harkening back to the original 1pc headers from the original LeMans back in the 70s; thus its appearance on the V11 bikes w/ the intro of the V11 LeMans in '02. Alternatively, it might have been a band-aid applied by the factory to deal with the large hole in the powerband at the 3.5k-4.5k rpm range caused largely by the poor fuel map [not entirely Guzzi's fault, since excessive leanness at idle is a primary facet of most smog regulations world wide.] Persons with far greater technical expertise and Guzzi modification experience than I have stated unequivocally that the bike runs almost identically with or without the "front x-over"/balance pipe, so that tends to lend wt. to the "traditional cosmetics" argument for its introduction.

 

Me personally, I think it looks great, and it *should* produce some power-band widening f/x, given a properly designed main x-over. The Stucchi unit seems to be the best in that regard, but the Mistral [again, technically a balance pipe, since there's insufficient area/volume to even begin mixing the exhaust gases and routing them thru both mufflers...] is well thought of because it provides a beefier mid-range (while admittedly sacrificing some top-end output) but supports fitment of a center-stand, while the Stucchi does not.

 

Hope this hasn't been hopelessly confusing!

 

 

Holy Smokes! This definitely helps as I decide whether or not to add a Stucchi, followed by new cans. Thanks very much for the info!

[mznyc]

Hi Chet, THIS is a must read if your interested in a X-over pipe.

One thing about the power delivery that has disappointing me is the lack of low end and mid range,according to Greg's and others findings the Mistral will help there.the addition of a PC3 will help further,especially if you have a map from an expert ala Todd Eagan.Todd's PC3

A Stucchi is on Ebay now, Ebay Stucchi

Michael

[Chet in MI]

Hi Chet, THIS is a must read if your interested in a X-over pipe.

One thing about the power delivery that has disappointing me is the lack of low end and mid range,according to Greg's and others findings the Mistral will help there.the addition of a PC3 will help further,especially if you have a map from an expert ala Todd Eagan.Todd's PC3

A Stucchi is on Ebay now, Ebay Stucchi

Michael

 

Thanks for the excellent advice! Now all I have to do is decide between Mistral and Stucchi Mistral seems better for my type of riding, but that Stucchi on eBay looks like a good buy! I have a Power Commander serial (yet to be installed <_ which as far i understand is less sophisticated than the pc3 usb only because of lack and inability to do individual cylinder maps. but pc serial should be fine for mapping either x-over yes src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_knownothing.gif" alt=":huh2:">

[fotoguzzi]

I'm very happy w/my Mistral crossover.. i don't need top end speed as I ride on public roads and the Mistral boosted the performance between 3-5k.

[slowkitty]

My steed was more, eh, frantic with stock cat; and after the Stuchhi it is better behaved at low ends, and a more linear power delivery. Never gotten to (and need not) find out how top end is affected since I never went more than 120 mph on mine.

 

Of course the weight loss too ....