!Update 10/15/11! Shifting still bad .Almost killed me !

[Baldini]

Clutch works well hot & cold can discount that.

 

You can adjust lever position by threaded rod (9 on pic 2).If lever sometimes does not return, & you have checked everything has free movement externally, I guess you'll have to look inside the sideplate. Pawl spring could be causing/contributing to problem. Check spring mount diameter & assembly of all parts. It may be worth replacing all three springs (21,25,28 on PIC 1).

 

I have no experience of the adjuster (9 on Pic 1) - try search.

 

Having said that, an occasional false neutral is something I regard as normal for a Guzzi box - indeed to some extent in any manual transmission (tho I have very limited experience) - it's something I put up with & can be down sometimes to my not making the change properly. Don't take me wrong, it's hard to know without riding your bike wether it's worse than mine in this respect but for safety, it's worth always being sure you're in the gear you think you are!

 

As I say I'm just an occasional mechanic on my own bikes, I'm no expert. Good luck.

 

KB

[mznyc]

Clutch works well hot & cold can discount that.

 

You can adjust lever position by threaded rod (9 on pic 2).If lever sometimes does not return, & you have checked everything has free movement externally, I guess you'll have to look inside the sideplate. Pawl spring could be causing/contributing to problem. Check spring mount diameter & assembly of all parts. It may be worth replacing all three springs (21,25,28 on PIC 1).

 

I have no experience of the adjuster (9 on Pic 1) - try search.

 

Having said that, an occasional false neutral is something I regard as normal for a Guzzi box - indeed to some extent in any manual transmission (tho I have very limited experience) - it's something I put up with & can be down sometimes to my not making the change properly. Don't take me wrong, it's hard to know without riding your bike wether it's worse than mine in this respect but for safety, it's worth always being sure you're in the gear you think you are!

 

As I say I'm just an occasional mechanic on my own bikes, I'm no expert. Good luck.

 

KB

 

Thanks Kev ,Hmm missed #9,couldn't hurt right? I rode it for the last 3 and a half seasons with only an occasional FN and stuck gear never a regular occurrence on 1 ride.Maybe springs have lost some of their resistance.Not out of the realm of possibility by looking at their fragile construction and history. Gonna try and get in there this week let yall know what I find,but still welcome any advice.

Michael

[Baldini]

...Thanks Kev ...

 

Who's Kev?

Good luck with it!

Keith

[mznyc]

...Thanks Kev ...

 

Who's Kev?

Good luck with it!

Keith

Oops typo,sorry.My brain tells my fingers what to do but they pay no attention,...

[belfastguzzi]

****Update***

I checked to see if shifter was making contact with porkchop and was not the case.While looking for something in shed I found box of spare parts from PO.It had Cannon Racecraft spring in a labeled open package,so don't know if it's an actual Cannon spring.I also ordered a MG spring from MG Cycle a while back in anticipation of opening cover,and don't know if this spring is the more recent MG part.Dont have camera now so cant take a good pic but they are different.Slightly different shape hook,length of arm,and loop.I know PO changed spring a couple times so dont know what was the last one installed was.I know I can measure it I just dont have a tool to get an accurate reading.

Sooo,

I guess I gotta open the cover again,bummer,......

Any thoughts would be more than welcome,

Belfast,Baldini,Greg,,?

Thanks

Michael

 

Hi M

I haven't read all of this, will do so later, but I see that you haven't changed your clutch fluid and the bike has done 20,000 miles!

If that is right, then change the clutch fluid.

It will be contaminated with dirt, water and probably has air in there too.

 

I found that putting in new fluid and so getting tighter operation makes a noticeable difference.

Do this before worrying about springs and whatnot. It may not be the problem or the whole problem, but it will help.

D

[belfastguzzi]

On the way home from picking up the bike,4 years ago,after stopping at a toll booth ,it got stuck in 1st gear,pulled over and after a minute or so working the shifter got it shifting again.This has happened a dozen times over the four years no rhyme or reason when it would happen......

When I did the "transmission/pawl spring" search I found several threads from the PO,(dbdicker) and it was clear that this frustrated him and was one of the reasons he decided to sell it.I don't want this to happen to me.

Thanks,

Michael

 

I see it's not just false neutrals but also the mysterious box-jamming problem.

There used to be a number of threads on this. It came up again here recently and I commented on it again because of Aberdeen Gary's gearbox pics.

It's terrible problem. For me, the box would lock in second and often not budge for a long time. It was worst for me on a trip down the length of Ireland, when for a long way I couldn't get it out of second. At one point, when like your example, it jammed setting off from a toll booth, I pulled over and opened the box because I thought that the spring may have broken. In fact I could find nothing wrong anywhere. It started when there was extremely bad traffic congestion and I was in low gear a lot at slow speeds. The bike was hot: other people have connected this problem to the gearbox being hot.

 

As far as I know, there is still not any explanation at all to this problem that plagues some bikes.

 

This is a very long shot, but I wondered, in the other recent thread, if this problem had something to do with Guzzi adding the extra internal plate to late boxes? They must have added it for some reason? Is there a bit of slop/fexibility that allows some mis-alignment and jamming in boxes without that extra bracing. I must stress that I haven't looked at the box to investigate, since learning about the Guzzi mod, so my speculation might be completely wrong and not make sense if I looked again. But - what's the extra part for? It's just a thought and definitely a question, especially in the continuing absence of any other explanation for stuck box.

 

I see that you are trying to do the clutch fluid change. Unfortunately I can't remember exactly how I did that. I'm sure I had the wheel off, but it was done without having a second person to help. Keep at it - something will give eventually. Hmmmmmm...

[mznyc]

On the way home from picking up the bike,4 years ago,after stopping at a toll booth ,it got stuck in 1st gear,pulled over and after a minute or so working the shifter got it shifting again.This has happened a dozen times over the four years no rhyme or reason when it would happen......

When I did the "transmission/pawl spring" search I found several threads from the PO,(dbdicker) and it was clear that this frustrated him and was one of the reasons he decided to sell it.I don't want this to happen to me.

Thanks,

Michael

 

I see it's not just false neutrals but also the mysterious box-jamming problem.

There used to be a number of threads on this. It came up again here recently and I commented on it again because of Aberdeen Gary's gearbox pics.

It's terrible problem. For me, the box would lock in second and often not budge for a long time. It was worst for me on a trip down the length of Ireland, when for a long way I couldn't get it out of second. At one point, when like your example, it jammed setting off from a toll booth, I pulled over and opened the box because I thought that the spring may have broken. In fact I could find nothing wrong anywhere. It started when there was extremely bad traffic congestion and I was in low gear a lot at slow speeds. The bike was hot: other people have connected this problem to the gearbox being hot.

 

As far as I know, there is still not any explanation at all to this problem that plagues some bikes.

 

This is a very long shot, but I wondered, in the other recent thread, if this problem had something to do with Guzzi adding the extra internal plate to late boxes? They must have added it for some reason? Is there a bit of slop/fexibility that allows some mis-alignment and jamming in boxes without that extra bracing. I must stress that I haven't looked at the box to investigate, since learning about the Guzzi mod, so my speculation might be completely wrong and not make sense if I looked again. But - what's the extra part for? It's just a thought and definitely a question, especially in the continuing absence of any other explanation for stuck box.

 

I see that you are trying to do the clutch fluid change. Unfortunately I can't remember exactly how I did that. I'm sure I had the wheel off, but it was done without having a second person to help. Keep at it - something will give eventually. Hmmmmmm...

Thanks D for the words of en'courage'ment.Courage is something you need when considering buying a Guzzi!

Now that you mention it,on that first ride I had ridden it for several hours and it was hot.One thing it has never done,is stay stuck in gear.Usually working the shifter up and down for a second or a minute will get her back in place.Yes my box doesn't have the additional plate.I wonder if it could be added/ordered and what, if anything,would you have to do to fit it?or could I just slap a used 03 on cover on there from Reboot, Greg Field ? Ya there is way too much play in these boxes,for a 15k USD bike.And the explanation Ive heard for years that Guzzi makes lousy boxes is waay unacceptable.Doesn't anyone in the front offices,design,engineering or assembly line at Guzzi have any pride?

By the by,my girlfriend just got back from southern Spain to Glasgow and said it was 3c.Had the heat on and a cuppa.Hope your gettin some of the tropical flow,...

[belfastguzzi]

gettin some of the tropical flow,...

No :!:

 

JAAP!! Why isn't there a rain (un-)smiley?

 

Besides, that sun one belongs to Kev, er.. Baldini. Can't think why.

[mznyc]

While waiting for new bleeder valve to purge old clutch fluid to see if it will improve my shifting problems I found this,

 

http://www.guzzitech.com/Gearboxes2-roper.html

 

Jeez,whada write-up.If there were any questions as to Pete's Guzzi knowledge ,this would quell any doubts.Thanks Pete I was wondering if these principles would apply to the six speeds? Figuring it would/should,...

[belfastguzzi]

Serious document! Good find.

[jrt]

I don't know if I totally agree with the extra internal plate rational. I have an '01 that seems to shift just fine and I use plain ol' synthetic oil with a bit of moly added.

Statistics of small numbers I guess. Maybe I have a 'good one' or maybe something else. There could be some variance on the spring locator or spring diameter. We'll probably never know.

On a related note- I really like traditional (5speed) Guzzi transmissions. I have hell of miles on them and, while slow shifting, have always done me right. I like the shimming document as well; thanks for that link. I have one box that was shimmed by Zydeco Racing (Mike Tiberio) and he does a Damn Fine Job.

For the newer 6 speed- suggestions here have all been good- grease moving surfaces, change clutch oil, change transmission oil. Not a lot else to it. If you haven't taken the plate off, you should just to inspect the parts and look for wear. Have you noticed any swarf on the magnet in the drain plug?

[mznyc]

 

For the newer 6 speed- suggestions here have all been good- grease moving surfaces, change clutch oil, change transmission oil. Not a lot else to it. If you haven't taken the plate off, you should just to inspect the parts and look for wear. Have you noticed any swarf on the magnet in the drain plug?

 

What Ive done so far to try to fix this,

 

Replaced fluid front and rear with Shockproof

Inspected spring,not broken

Lubed shift linkage

Adjusted eccentric adjuster,every subsequent ride that showed symptoms I made small adjustments to this on the road and it helped but problems always reoccurred on subsequent rides.

 

Play in the shift linkage,dont know what is too much play .Where and with what(washers?)do you shim it?

 

Thanks Jason for the input,No junk on drainplug, pulled and inspected cover

Thanks,

Michael

[guido]

 

For the newer 6 speed- suggestions here have all been good- grease moving surfaces, change clutch oil, change transmission oil. Not a lot else to it. If you haven't taken the plate off, you should just to inspect the parts and look for wear. Have you noticed any swarf on the magnet in the drain plug?

 

What Ive done so far to try to fix this,

 

Replaced fluid front and rear with Shockproof

Inspected spring,not broken

Lubed shift linkage

Adjusted eccentric adjuster,every subsequent ride that showed symptoms I made small adjustments to this on the road and it helped but problems always reoccurred on subsequent rides.

 

Play in the shift linkage,dont know what is too much play .Where and with what(washers?)do you shim it?

 

Thanks Jason for the input,No junk on drainplug, pulled and inspected cover

Thanks,

Michael

 

 

I would seriously consider to take the "fearbox" to pieces and inspect it. Pay particular attention to the shift rings. I have had one break cleanly, on a box out of recall numbers.

I doubt this is the problem, though.

However the box is problematic in some cases and it is a problem which could cost you dearly if unlucky. And no amount of driver skills can mitigate a blocked box!

 

I am not driving any V11 sport without leathers.

I have the scars to prove it!

[GraeV11]

 

For the newer 6 speed- suggestions here have all been good- grease moving surfaces, change clutch oil, change transmission oil. Not a lot else to it. If you haven't taken the plate off, you should just to inspect the parts and look for wear. Have you noticed any swarf on the magnet in the drain plug?

 

What Ive done so far to try to fix this,

 

Replaced fluid front and rear with Shockproof

Inspected spring,not broken

Lubed shift linkage

Adjusted eccentric adjuster,every subsequent ride that showed symptoms I made small adjustments to this on the road and it helped but problems always reoccurred on subsequent rides.

 

Play in the shift linkage,dont know what is too much play .Where and with what(washers?)do you shim it?

 

Thanks Jason for the input,No junk on drainplug, pulled and inspected cover

Thanks,

Michael

 

 

I would seriously consider to take the "fearbox" to pieces and inspect it. Pay particular attention to the shift rings. I have had one break cleanly, on a box out of recall numbers.

I doubt this is the problem, though.

However the box is problematic in some cases and it is a problem which could cost you dearly if unlucky. And no amount of driver skills can mitigate a blocked box!

 

I am not driving any V11 sport without leathers.

I have the scars to prove it!

 

 

Similar prob here, a number of false neutrals at end of a long ride (all changing down), then couldn't change up from second, changed down to first and stuck there. No crunches or 'terminal' noises. Waiting for it (and me) to cool down then will pull it apart. Grrrr ! Your comments scare me - my legs have taken too much damage over the years, but I haven't yet been bitten by the Guzzi. Is it just a matter of time ???? Will report back on what bits fall out when I open her up. Here's hoping £3.50 spring and some attention to the arm is all that's needed.

[Baldini]

...couldn't change up from second, changed down to first and stuck there...

Sounds typical of pawl spring failure.