Still On The Road

[Orson]

Now another problem.

 

about 2 weeks ago while on a trip, my bike wouldn't start due to a faulty relay.

 

I managed to get a new relay at the Guzzi shop in Sienna and, everything was fine until this morning when I tried to fire her up. First press of the starter button and nothing. Released the button and pressed again. This time it started. I rode to the nearest Guzzi shop an hour away but, they didn't have any relays in stock.

 

After lunch, it failed to start again. Repeated presses of the starter button yielded no results. I removed the seat and jiggled Relay Number 2 and after a few more attempts, it started up. I rode to Arezzo where there's another Guzzi shop but, now is the weekend and it won't open until Monday.

 

When I arrived safely at a hotel, I turned her off then, tried to start and, of course, it fired right up.

 

I have 4 days left on my vacation. Do you think I can try to coax 4 more days out of the relay, or will it continue to get worse before failing all together?

 

Any ideas why a new relay would fail after 2 weeks?

 

Any ideas where I can buy a new relay other than a Guzzi shop?

[Buzzard]

Any ideas why a new relay would fail after 2 weeks?

 

Any ideas where I can buy a new relay other than a Guzzi shop?

It may not be the relay. There are several safety items in line, electrically speaking, before the starter moves when you push the button. Most often, it is the clutch switch, or more accurately, the bullet connectors alongside the frame, right behind the steering stem, which get loose. The clutch switch has to show the clutch lever pulled in(a closed connection on the switch)before the starter circuit will complete. With open connections at the bullet connectors, no starter. You can follow the two wire loom from the clutch down to the frame, and tighten the sleeves that the bullets fit into, and no more problem. If the switch is bad, you can short the two leads(the ones going toward the bike), and the starter will work again. I have had this problem, I know it well. Also to be considered, but less often the problem, are the on-off switch, and the side stand switch. With a new relay, I wouldn't look at it again without checking these other items. Good luck!

[Orson]

Thanks! I'll check that in the morning

 

If the switch is bad, you can short the two leads (the ones going toward the bike), and the starter will work again.

ermm...I'm a complete electrical dunce.

 

Can you be more specific as to "going towards the bike"? I may need to do that if I end up stranded on the roadside.

[savagehenry]

Consider checking the relay base for bad connection too. Maybe the contacts have been spread and no longer are tight over the relay's blades, or coming loose. When you turn the key on, are you getting dash lights?

[Buzzard]

Can you be more specific as to "going towards the bike"? I may need to do that if I end up stranded on the roadside.

Certainly. There are two wires heading to the clutch switch, and they have push in (bullet) connectors which are located beside the frame, just behind the steering head. You may have to remove the tank to access them. If you disconnect the two push in connectors, two wires will be going to the clutch switch, and two will be going into the bikes wiring harness. Take the two going into the bikes wiring harness, and connect them with a short piece of wire, or strip the insulation and twist them together, and then insulate them, if this is an emergency. This will simulate the clutch switch making the connection when the clutch is pulled. But, it most likely will be possible to just tighten the sleeves on the female connectors, so they grip the male parts tightly, and assuming the clutch switch is itself OK, this will end the problem. I think that by percentages, these connectors being loose cause more no-start problems than the other potential causes.

 

Take your right hand and curl your fingers, then take your left index finger and slide it into the curled fingers. This is what the bullet connectors are like. They are made of copper, or an alloy of, and if not tight, they don't make the connection. The sleeve part(your right hand) needs to be tight on the bullet(your left index finger). With repeated heating and cooling, vibration, and the elements in general, the sleeve just gets loose.

 

This is not to say that relay base problems, or other electrical failures, are not the cause. But those loose connections to the clutch switch cause such intermittent trouble, and clear up whenever you move the bars left-right, wiggling the connectors.

 

You can look at the relays connectors, and see if the spades are being gripped by the connectors in the base. They should leave a little scratching on the copper colored spades where they slid in. Also, if in a no start condition, with the seat off, wiggle the relay gently and see if it makes a difference. It will actulally take three hands to do this, hold in the clutch, push the starter button, and wiggle the relay. But that just may pinpoint a bad relay connector. I guess you could zip-tie, or use string, to hold in the clutch lever, if by yourself. McGuyver would probably use a shoe lace.

 

I remember that on my LeMans, I could hold the clutch lever in, hold the starter button on, and swing the handlebars back and forth, and it would generally start. By doing this, I was wiggling the connectors going to the clutch switch.

 

Hope any of this helps. You will feel good when you find the culprit. It is good to be able to have some confidence in your bike, knowing it will start.

[gavo]

I've found the problem is more the contact between the relay base and the relay rather than the relay itself. I had this poblem just last weekend as I had some spare relay's with me but this did't fix the prob, it was still cutting out whilst riding. (at first I thought it was bad fuel as I'd just refuelled when the problem started) When bike finally stopped completely I removed seat and checked relays, bike started, replaced seat, bike stopped(it had been running fine for previous 6mths) swapped relays around as the most rear one was slightly taller (aftermarket) prob solved 500 meters up the road miss fire stop. removed rear most relay put a slight twist in each of the blades coming out of the relay with some pliers and pushed it back in , fired up and is still running fine a week later. I belive Kiwi-roy as provided and excellent write up in here to fix this prob, I've just gotta extact the digit and do it

[Kiwi_Roy]

It sounds like the relay base for sure, switch relay 1 & 2 (assuming you have 5 pins)

As Gavo says a slight bend in the pins might help or you could try a bit of foil in the contact but you need to strip the bases down as soon as you can.

Make sure you grease the contacts with vaseline when you do, this stops them corroding.

 

 

 

 

 

Roy

Relay Base Repair.pdf

[twhitaker]

Buzzard mentioned the bullet connectors on the clutch switch. Also worth looking at would be the spade connectors on the clutch switch itself.

[fotoguzzi]

Any ideas why a new relay would fail after 2 weeks?

 

Any ideas where I can buy a new relay other than a Guzzi shop?

 

 

it's just a 4 or 5 pin relay... any auto parts store should have one.. bring the old one in with you.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Any ideas why a new relay would fail after 2 weeks?

 

Any ideas where I can buy a new relay other than a Guzzi shop?

 

 

it's just a 4 or 5 pin relay... any auto parts store should have one.. bring the old one in with you.

Go to www.digikey.com have them for $4.59ea

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=Z2247

Buzzard is right the car parts stores should carry them but I never had any luck here, If you can't tell them what make and model car it comes from forget it.

I suggest you only buy 5 pin, they are a direct replacement for the 4 pin variety and you can use them in any slot.

They also have a switch that will work on brake and clutch.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=CH290-ND&x=19&y=20 You can get something similar from Radio Shack c/w a roller actuating lever which you can tear off, I put one of those on a year ago and it refuses to die in spite of being non waterproof.

Roy

[jrt]

You can get something similar from Radio Shack c/w a roller actuating lever which you can tear off, I put one of those on a year ago and it refuses to die in spite of being non waterproof.

Roy

 

Mine's going on 5 years. Doesn't see a lot of rain, though.

[Orson]

Well, after leaving her out in the rain overnight in front of the hotel, I was fearing the worst but, she surprised me the next morning and fired right up as if nothing were wrong.

 

I decided to press on and, so far so good. There was a one split second hesitation after pressing the starter button but, the rest of the time she fired up.

 

One more day left on the trip before I get back to Parma then, I'll let Moto Guareschi have a look at her.

 

I guess the 2 year lay off from my accident haven't been kind on her. I also had another rear wheel bearing go out her. That makes 4 rear wheel bearings in 70,000 km.

 

I still love the bike though!

 

Thanks all!

[fotoguzzi]

did anyone suggest you check the battery ground cable? make sure it's tight on the battery and the other end free of corrosion. If it's bolted to the frame I would move it to the engine block.

[luhbo]

Before you go to hollidays/vacancies you should make one thing very clear next time: be sure your trip is without internet, without mom and dad, without any forums! That's an important part of the therapy: no net nor any double floor. Just sun, fun and the bike. Trust her.

 

Hubert

[Orson]

Before you go to hollidays/vacancies you should make one thing very clear next time: be sure your trip is without internet, without mom and dad, without any forums! That's an important part of the therapy: no net nor any double floor. Just sun, fun and the bike. Trust her.

Actually, the forum wuz a big help

 

and I had sun, fun and a bike to boot

 

Thanks all!