shifting issues - false neutrals

[Jacob Ezzell]

So the first few times I took out my v11 sport I felt like I got a few bad shifts, but chalked it up to getting used to a new transmission. Now though, its happening a little more frequently, and I've been able to narrow down the symptoms. Shifting from N->1, and 1->2 usually work just fine. 2->3 is also 98% good. 3->4 though is sketchy. I often get a false neutral, and it seems I've "overshot" 4th gear. If I toe down the shifter back towards 4 it will often pop right in, though not always. I can tell by the tach that I'm in 4th.

 

I talked to the previous owner about it, and he said:

 

When I first got it myself and rode itin cooler weather, I thought I had lost the clutch altogether,it seemed to slip and be stuck in false neutrals. A change to Redline Shockproof Heavy Oil took care of that. One other time I was getting a lot of false neutrals and thuoght I had broken the shift return spring.I bought one and pulled the cover to replace it.I found a roll pin laying on a magnet in the case.The roll pin acts as a stop for the shift mechanism,if it falls out it will allow the mechanism to go slightly pass the engagement point for the next gear,false neutral.I didn't have any problems shifting it when I last rode it.It's easy enough to check though,drain the tranny oil,disconnect the battery,pull the starter,shift linkage,cover bolts and pull the cover.Make sure it is in neutral when you start.

 

So I may tackle this, check in there and see if anything looks bad.

 

Anyone have pics of what it looks like under there? Or where I might find the case magnet he's talking about? I have a replacement return spring if the old one looks like a mess. Any other parts I might order before I pull it apart?

[belfastguzzi]

 

Anyone have pics of what it looks like under there? Or where I might find the case magnet he's talking about? I have a replacement return spring if the old one looks like a mess. Any other parts I might order before I pull it apart?

 

Try a search as there are lots and lots of pics and many descriptions.

The topics covered here include the very case of the loose roll pin that you mention – and there are pictures of that.

The main threads can be found by going to FAQ.

Not sure if the roll pin is directly referenced there, but I'm sure that it can be found from there.

 

If you can't find the stuff, give a shout here again.

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1633

 

 

 

 

Best

[mznyc]

Hi Jacob,

Sorry to hear about your troubles.I ,as many other owners experience the same problems as you.No known cure-all solution.Sometimes fluid change,spring replacement works (not for me,still a work in progress).Guzzi engineers should be embarrassed to let these leave the factory as such poor shifters.

What year is your bike? Various common problems can change from year to year.Good idea to have your year listed on your profile.

Here;s some links related to my saga,

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16155

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16019

 

If you decide to bleed the clutch fluid.READ THIS FIRST !

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16028

 

Keep us posted on your progress,may help the rest of us out.

[Jacob Ezzell]

Sorry guys, good point: 2000 V11 Sport. Profile hadn't been updated post-purchase.

 

Thanks for the links. I have trouble finding stuff with search. "False Neutral" searches for "false" -or- "neutral" not -and-. Makes it tough.

 

I ordered some replacement redline shockproof heavy, so I can venture into the bike's neather regions. Sounds like I should bleed the clutch too, thanks for the links about that.

 

I'm at about 30K miles on this clutch i think, per the previous owner. Would it be a suprise for it to be worn out by now? I think it slipped as I was riding to work tonight. Maybe it was a one-time thing, but who knows. I'll try bleeding before I pay to have the clutch replaced for sure.

[mznyc]

Ha,ha.I am not one of the search nazis.I just assume people couldn't find it with the search engine.

I have seen some people say their clutch was worn in the 30-40 k range.But obviously ,rider style could have a great effect on this.

I would try everything you are looking at first,fluid,cover,spring,clutch fluid,as the clutch requires pulling the engine to replace.Ive been putting off replacing mine as some of the Scuras' have exploded.

There was a recall on pre 02 transmissions,don't know which year/years were affected ,00-01?Probably addressed by previous owner,but would be worth checking out.

Michael

[Jacob Ezzell]

I would try everything you are looking at first,fluid,cover,spring,clutch fluid,as the clutch requires pulling the engine to replace.Ive been putting off replacing mine as some of the Scuras' have exploded.

There was a recall on pre 02 transmissions,don't know which year/years were affected ,00-01?Probably addressed by previous owner,but would be worth checking out.

Michael

 

yeah I'll try all sorts of things before I resort to pulling the clutch.

 

The PO did say they had addressed the recalls.

 

Tonight when I rode in, and yesterday when I went home, I had no troubles with it. I read through the threads you all linked to, and took to heart one post about how the transmission really has a lot of play in it, and you can't slam it around like a sport bike and expect it to behave. I've been very methodical about my shifting and it seems to like that better. So maybe some of it really is rider style. My old honda tranny had spoiled me.

[Baldini]

...you can't slam it around like a sport bike and expect it to behave. I've been very methodical about my shifting and it seems to like that better. So maybe some of it really is rider style. My old honda tranny had spoiled me.

 

Guzzi transmission, like the rest of the bike responds to & reflects your differing performance & attitude at different times & in different conditions, more so than any other vehicle I have experienced. I don't know why this is, but I suspect massive moving parts, air-cooling, loose manufacturing tolerances & variable approach to design & build at factory. I think this is partly why Moto Guzzis are so involving long term for those who get sucked in, & so readily put off those who will not put up with such things.

 

I have concerns how strong the V11 6speed box is. There may be a particular issue with your transmission & you must determine that. There is no question that performance is improved by good adjustment & maintenance. But the symptoms you describe - false neutrals & occasional tricky shifting & missed gears - have been present to some extent, occasionally in all Guzzis I've had since 1980's.

 

IME, unlike Japanese product, Guzzis respond differently every time you use them. Bit like chancing the corner cafe or getting a MacD*****s in a strange town...

 

KB

[slug]

Guzzi transmission, like the rest of the bike responds to & reflects your differing performance & attitude at different times & in different conditions, more so than any other vehicle I have experienced.

 

I second that. I've found that if I'm spacing out and I'm not deliberate (meaning I make sure to press all the way to the stop, not slamming the lever) with my shifts I will hit a "bonus" neutral. Redline helped me as well.

 

As others have said, the V11 has an 11 speed gearbox: six forward gears and five neutrals.

[mznyc]

I agree that you have to adjust your riding style slightly,when getting on a Guzzi for the first time.I did,and had mostly a trouble-free 3 years and thousands of miles on her.But as of last season,the false neutrals became common ,and more importantly distracting,on just about every ride.I had one ,maybe two ,75-100 mile trouble free rides while trying to make eccentric nut adjustments,but FN's always came back with a vengeance.

I have 4 Hondas(one of them a VFR VTEC) in the garage and have owned another 10 over the years.I dont expect quality, Japanese engineering and operation,but I need the Guzzi to be mostly consistent so I can concentrate on the road and not on the gearbox.

I have done a lot of reading on this subject here and am not convinced that my problem is rider style but is mechanical, as many owners say they have trouble free shifting.

My two cents,...