Electrical problems - one for the experts

[Skeeve]

 

No, I'm sure it's genuine Note the plate sticker expired early 84.

 

Too right: no way a bike could have spent 100,000 miles out rolling around under the sun w/ no signs of yellowing of the acrylic over the speedo dial. Not to mention, I don't think even the most dedicated rider is likely to put over 100k km [60k mi] on in a single year... Score!

 

Everything is still tight, propstand etc, the original paint is immaculate but the brightwork suffered.

Brakes were all gummed up, I had to drill the muck out of some of the carb passages.

So the story goes old guy's wife talked him into buying it and the rode to the beach where they laid it down and couldn't pick it up, took it home and parked it.

Alloy wheels.

I'll never get it back to perfect but it should be a great bike to take my wife along.

Roy

 

Man, that's some story! Hard to believe they didn't just take the new buyer's depreciation hit & sell it on down the line to recoup their cost when it was still new! Lucky 4 you!

 

I've been trying to score one of the '83 cast rear wheels cheap to see if it will mate up w/ the drive unit on my GL12. If I can, & it works, it will mean I can replace my 150/85x15 rear tire w/ a 130/90x16, just like the front. Which in turn means that I can run a reversed rear up front, and swap tires end for end when the rear squares & the front triangles, to keep decent handling throughout the lifespan of a set of tires [and of course, the bike will handle much more sprightly when new because of the match btw tire size front 2 rear...]

 

My GL12 was an Interstate that I got as a wreck, so it has no rear bags or topcase: when I found out that '84 was the last year for a "standard" G'wing roadster, and that the taillight package for an '84 was about a gajillion $ less than replacing the whole back end on the Interstate, I took the easy way out. I'll be adding a cheapy aftermarket topcase one of these years, just 'cause the gf needs something to relax against, but my GL12 is will remain about #50 lighter than in its original state, which can only help the slightly ponderous handling, no?

 

Congrats 2 you, what a great story!

[dark_bike]

Don't forget to look whether the battery was sweating or not.

 

Hubert

 

Nope, all dry..I may be naive but I'd think that with € 130 gel battery some quality might be expected..the thing is barely a year old

[luhbo]

I wrote "sweating", not "leaking".

You wrote "14V at some revs" or so, what voltage do you see at 5000min-1 for instance, lights off? (As long as the Hawker is dry that's probably not the problem anyway)

 

How long is your commuting distance by the way?

 

Hubert

[dark_bike]

I wrote "sweating", not "leaking".

You wrote "14V at some revs" or so, what voltage do you see at 5000min-1 for instance, lights off? (As long as the Hawker is dry that's probably not the problem anyway)

 

How long is your commuting distance by the way?

 

Hubert

 

At idle it is around 12.5 - 13 V, at about 2500 rpm and over it is a little over 14.

 

I drive about 20 km to work. In summer I usually go for a spin after work as there is some nice countryside just around the corner but in the present weather I'm glad when I make it home dry and unscathed...

 

what with the low-revving engine I guess its just a matter of the alternator not putting out enough to serve both the lights and rechgarge the battery on such a short stretch, but I'd have though Guzzi would have got that sorted by now.

[luhbo]

It's a tiny battery. Compare it to a standard battery of the same Ah value and you might get an idea what the problem is.

 

hubert

[Kiwi_Roy]

At idle it is around 12.5 - 13 V, at about 2500 rpm and over it is a little over 14.

I drive about 20 km to work. In summer I usually go for a spin after work as there is some nice countryside just around the corner but in the present weather I'm glad when I make it home dry and unscathed...

 

I would think 20 K would give you a good charge unless you spend a considerable time idling at the lights where it's actually discharging the battery.

I tested my V11 after fixing the regulator with the ammeter connected between the battery terminal and the positive wires (not starter motor) in the classic position for an ammeter

The net charge to the battery was -3 @ 1000 RPM, + 2.5 @ 2000 RPM, rising to +4.1 @ 3000

 

Having said that I found I had to tweak the regulator voltage setting to get the battery voltage up above 13 Volts after a run with the motor off. Buried just below the surface is a trim resistor that can be changed to raise or lower the voltage setting.

BTW, did you test your diodes as I showed, it only takes a second if you have diode test on your multimeter, just unplug the regulator and test from each yellow to red.

 

Roy

 

Regulator Schematic Nov 2010.pdf

[dark_bike]

It's a tiny battery. Compare it to a standard battery of the same Ah value and you might get an idea what the problem is.

 

hubert

 

The sport1100 I bought some months ago has 2 batteries (didnt check yet whether they have the same Ah rating as the single one on the V11). They probably eliminated one due to lack of space in the V11.

 

more experimentation on Friday.

[Skeeve]

 

what with the low-revving engine I guess its just a matter of the alternator not putting out enough to serve both the lights and rechgarge the battery on such a short stretch, but I'd have though Guzzi would have got that sorted by now.

 

They did get it sorted: that's why they returned to the high-mount belt-driven alt. on the new quotards: the problem w/ the pancake alternator on our V11s is that the Guzzi donk is such a slow-revving beast that the alt. isn't normally spinning fast enough to put out the necessary juice when you're just loafing along in cruise.

 

Something I'm willing to wager that the new Bellagio w/ it's revvy, short-stroke 940 motor doesn't suffer from to any appreciable extent: even loafing along in cruise, it's torque curve is likely just enough higher in the rpm band to get above the "knee" on the alt.'s output curve...

 

Everyone keeps telling the newbies to keep their rpms up, that this motor likes to rev it up a bit: now you know why!

[Kiwi_Roy]

 

didnt have the time to sort things out fully, but did manage to measure the charging voltage at the battery with the engine running. With a bit of revving that was 14.0 volt, so that would seem OK.

 

After I repaired my regulator I did some testing, here's the results

The ammeter in position 1 only shows what the alternator is putting out

In position 2 it shows the net charge ±, you need to stay Positive

If you have any additional running lights or heated gear you might be tipping the balance.

 

BTW, did you test your diodes (I thought I asked before but it seems to have dissapeared)

 

Good Luck

Roy

[dark_bike]

 

didnt have the time to sort things out fully, but did manage to measure the charging voltage at the battery with the engine running. With a bit of revving that was 14.0 volt, so that would seem OK.

 

After I repaired my regulator I did some testing, here's the results

The ammeter in position 1 only shows what the alternator is putting out

In position 2 it shows the net charge ±, you need to stay Positive

If you have any additional running lights or heated gear you might be tipping the balance.

 

BTW, did you test your diodes (I thought I asked before but it seems to have dissapeared)

 

Good Luck

Roy

 

Hi Roy,

 

when temperatures are more humane (oh for a heated garage) I'll have a go at your scheme. Meanwhile, I did recharge the battery last week and the next morning starting was sluggish as ever. So it might well be the battery as well as some other cause X.

 

cheers

Tom

[Kiwi_Roy]

Hi Roy,

 

when temperatures are more humane (oh for a heated garage) I'll have a go at your scheme. Meanwhile, I did recharge the battery last week and the next morning starting was sluggish as ever. So it might well be the battery as well as some other cause X.

 

cheers

Tom

Updated Dec 3rd

I bought a new Yuasa battery late last year. The voltage was all over the map, dropped down below 10 Volts at the lights but it still cranked over sluggishly, finally I took it back to the dealer and told them it was defective. I could tell they didn't believe me but they took it in for an overnight charge and testing. They found it had no capacity and replaced it free of charge with an identical Yuasa which works like a charm. I suspect something must have broken inside one of the cells to give only one or two plates instead of about 5.

 

Another thing I did over the summer was pull my starter apart, I didn't see anything to worry about but changed the grease in it's gearbox, that seemed to improve it quite a lot, certainly quieter.

 

Put your multimeter across the battery and tell us the voltage

Key Off

Key On

While cranking

What's the ambient temperature where your bike is stored?

 

Something else you should do sometime is remove the lugs from the battery and scrape the lead to expose shinny metal then apply vaseline, this prevents lead oxide forming between the terminal and lug. Lead oxide is an insulator, light grey in colour, I have seen terminals that are really tight but no electrical contact due to the oxide. This usually shows up in winter when the cranking amps are high the engine will crank for a second then nothing.

Check also the battery ground connection (behind the seat release key on my V10) that could be loose and the positive wire at the starter.