sports 1100i vs copa italia

[2or4strokes]

Hi fellow guzzitas

 

It's been a while since I posted but as I ride the sports 1100i and copa italia more frequently i sometimes ask myself why the both bikes feel so different. I know they are supposed to have the same chassis, basically same engine, and more but I can't figure why the sports 1100i feels so heavy and harder to turn and generally harder to ride than the copa italia. The engine feels more peaky which makes me suspect there is a higher lift cam , but overall the riding impression is one of a much heavier bike (sports 1100i) a lazier engine and definitely more long legged gear box.

 

My main query is why it feels so heavy and harder to steer as compared to the V11 copa. Is it really that much differnce in weight although the specs says not. By the way both bikes are bought new and has only 5000km and 8000km respectively.

 

cheers

[Guzzirider]

I've owned an 1100 Sport Corsa, and a V11- I think the main difference is that the 1100 Sport has the 5 speed gearbox and is longer.

 

You can raise the ride height if you would like her to steer faster- when Gyles was racing his Daytona RS which has basically the same chassis he relocated the upper rear shock mounting to lift the back end of the bike and sharpen her up.

 

Cheers

 

Guy

[2or4strokes]

I've owned an 1100 Sport Corsa, and a V11- I think the main difference is that the 1100 Sport has the 5 speed gearbox and is longer.

 

You can raise the ride height if you would like her to steer faster- when Gyles was racing his Daytona RS which has basically the same chassis he relocated the upper rear shock mounting to lift the back end of the bike and sharpen her up.

 

Cheers

 

Guy

 

Hi Guzzirider

 

I know I can raise the rear and have done that for some of my bikes but why does it feel so heavy compared to the v11. I thought they are the almost the same weight?

[callison]

I've owned an 1100 Sport Corsa, and a V11- I think the main difference is that the 1100 Sport has the 5 speed gearbox and is longer.

 

You can raise the ride height if you would like her to steer faster- when Gyles was racing his Daytona RS which has basically the same chassis he relocated the upper rear shock mounting to lift the back end of the bike and sharpen her up.

 

Cheers

 

Guy

 

Hi Guzzirider

 

I know I can raise the rear and have done that for some of my bikes but why does it feel so heavy compared to the v11. I thought they are the almost the same weight?

 

The Sport 1100i has 1˚ more rake than the V11 Sport chassis. It also has a brace from the spine to the transmission so it's just a tad more stiff overall. I don't recall that when I had a V11 Sport in addition to my Sport 1100i that they handled all that much different but the V11 Sport engine was noticeably stronger feeling.

[2or4strokes]

I've owned an 1100 Sport Corsa, and a V11- I think the main difference is that the 1100 Sport has the 5 speed gearbox and is longer.

 

You can raise the ride height if you would like her to steer faster- when Gyles was racing his Daytona RS which has basically the same chassis he relocated the upper rear shock mounting to lift the back end of the bike and sharpen her up.

 

Cheers

 

Guy

 

Hi Guzzirider

 

I know I can raise the rear and have done that for some of my bikes but why does it feel so heavy compared to the v11. I thought they are the almost the same weight?

 

The Sport 1100i has 1˚ more rake than the V11 Sport chassis. It also has a brace from the spine to the transmission so it's just a tad more stiff overall. I don't recall that when I had a V11 Sport in addition to my Sport 1100i that they handled all that much different but the V11 Sport engine was noticeably stronger feeling.

 

 

Hi Carlson

 

Thanks for the feedback. What i am experiencing when I ride them back to back is a much more nimble copa italia V11 one reason I believe is due to the handle bars, and also during acceleration the sports 1100i feels like solid iron rushing towards and horizon and requiring more effort to turn and brake although strangely again they share the same braking components. Just to complicate matters the sports 1100i runs a 160 rear tire which should help it turn in and nimbleness althought this is not so.

 

The sports 1100i feels more stable at speed although I'm not saying the V11 isn't . Can 1mm of rake make so much difference. I am unable to weigh the bikes but I have a suspicion the sports 1100i weighs a considerable amount more.

 

I prefer the lighten feel of the V11 and hope to replicate it as close as possible on the sports. Any more info is appreciated. I'll source a V11 triple clamp , put it on and see what happens.

[2or4strokes]

I've owned an 1100 Sport Corsa, and a V11- I think the main difference is that the 1100 Sport has the 5 speed gearbox and is longer.

 

You can raise the ride height if you would like her to steer faster- when Gyles was racing his Daytona RS which has basically the same chassis he relocated the upper rear shock mounting to lift the back end of the bike and sharpen her up.

 

Cheers

 

Guy

 

Hi Guzzirider

 

I know I can raise the rear and have done that for some of my bikes but why does it feel so heavy compared to the v11. I thought they are the almost the same weight?

 

 

Hi Guzzirider

 

Do you know where to find the linkage to raise the rear as the standard white power is non adjustable?

[GuzziMoto]

There are a few things that are different between the two.

The weight I don't believe is that different but I am not sure.

The length, the V11 is shorter so for the same amount of lean angle it will turn more.

The rake, on later V11's there was not a big difference but earlier V11's had a steeper rake which causes the bike to steer more/quicker for a given amount of steering input. Trail is also factors in here, less trail makes a bike lighter steering but too little trail can cause instability and tank slappers can result.

The width of the bars, wider bars make a considerable difference in reducing the effort required to steer. Switching my Daytona from clip ons to wider full handle bars made a big difference in steering.

Lighter wheels, my Daytona's wheels are considerably heavier then the wheels on the wifes V11 and that makes a big difference in steering effort (especially on the front). Newer Guzzi's have even lighter wheels.

I am not aware of a "linkage" you can buy to raise the rear ride height. But reducing the amount the rear sags when you sit on the bike by increasing preload will raise the effective ride height of the rear. Replacing the shock with a longer shock or an adjustable shock will allow you to take that further.

You can also drop the front by sliding the fork tubes up through the triple clamps a little. That has the same effect on steering as raising the rear but does slightly reduce ground clearance. Keep in mind that steepening the rake by raising the rear or dropping the front also reduces trail. So there is a limit on how far you can go before bad things happen.

 

(edit) Oh, and as Skeeve points out air pressure and tires have a big effect on how a bike handles. More air pressure = lighter steering. Forgot to mention that.

[Skeeve]

Can 1mm of rake make so much difference. I am unable to weigh the bikes but I have a suspicion the sports 1100i weighs a considerable amount more.

 

It's not so much the 1deg of rake that makes so much difference, it's the greater trail [which affects the resistance to turning, whereas the rake just lengthens the wheelbase, increasing the radius of the minimum circle that can be negotiated.]

 

On the Spot & Sporti, the traditional tactic was to remove the clip ons, drop the forks in the triple clamps enough to attach the clip ons above the top triple clamp, which simultaneously dropped the front [decreasing rake & trail] while reducing the stretch to the bars [giving more leverage to the rider.]

 

You might try changing tires and fiddling w/ pressures too. If the handling is so slow, for certain check the rear tire & make certain it hasn't lost a few psi. Moto tires are typically good for losing about 10% in a month in my experience, just sitting in the garage waiting to be ridden.

 

Good luck!

[v11cafe]

V11 feels lighter, and hondalike, compared to sport.

Sport is closer to an old Leman than a V11, but once you get used to it

there is much fun in it.

Have not tried to lower the triple clamp yet.

 

Drove a friend's Magni Australia and due to the different riding position, shorter tank

it was another bike

[2or4strokes]

My tire pressure is as recommended, so how do i replicate the handling from my V11 on the sports. \\\

 

If i fit a triple clamp from a V11 , that will increase/reduce the trial / rake .

When you guys said the sports 1100i is longer I assume you mean the wheelbase is longer, and since the swingarm looks and measures similar to me it can only mean the fork is the one affecting it.

 

I look at these 2 bikes back to back and even pushing it up from the side stand gives me the impression the sports is heavier by a fair margin. They are really very similar down to the wheels , the frame, swingarm, shock mounting position, everything except the sub frame.

 

I really like the feel/nimbleness of the V11 , and also the engine of the sports 1100 thats why I'm asking before I attempt to convert.

 

By the way I have a centauro as well and although it feels heavy it is easier handling than the sports because of its high and wide bars.

 

and just in case you guys think that i am not used to the 'clip on' feel my other bikes are sports bikes like mv agusta f4 312rr and S 1000rr.

 

cheers i love guzzis , they are in a world of their own.

[raz]

I have a Sporti but have yet to try a V11. I raised my fork legs 10 mm in the clamps and that made a significant difference to the better. This was when using a 70 profile rear tyre (as speced). Later on I replaced the rear tyre with a 60 profile (as speced for Daytona RS, same frame and forks) and that negated the effect of raising the forks so I'm about to raise them another 10 mm for a total of 20 mm.

 

Another thing, just in case you forgot about it, you should check the setting of the steering damper. I ran mine at highest damping for quite a while and when I eventually realised that and put it at the lowest damping instead, it felt like a tremendously lighter bike, especially in low speed and just pushing it around when parking. Everything is relative...

 

Actually you may want to check the steering damper as well as the steering bearings for malfunction in case you haven't already. The latter can cause all sorts of weird effects if something is not right.

[2or4strokes]

Thanks Raz for your advice. My steering is new and the cone bearings are sound. I'll try lowering the front fork or raising the rear to see what happens, but the tire profile is something new to me.

[callison]

I forgot to mention that the V11 Sport has 1cm less trail in the triple tree too. Däs Mototec sells a kit to reduce the rake (expensive). They also sell a triple tree with less rake as well (also expensive). You can put a V11 Sport tripe tree on the Sport 1100i frame though and it will fit just find although the ignition lock stub has to be ground down to clear the V11 Sport triple tree. The fairing is most of the weight difference along with the steel tank. The V11 Sport transmission is actually heavier than the that of the Sport 1100i (extra gear and third shaft). I think the weight of the two bikes is actually not that much different but I no longer have the specifications in front of me. I guess I'll look them up later just out of curiosity.

[Baldini]

....but the tire profile is something new to me.

 

What tyres are you on? Some tyres steer much quicker than others.

 

KB

[2or4strokes]

....but the tire profile is something new to me.

 

What tyres are you on? Some tyres steer much quicker than others.

 

KB

 

Hi Baldini

 

I'm currerntly running Bridestone BT 16 (i'll let you know the profile in the morning)dual compound tires on me bike. It also has a full system termi exhuast and a creedon chip. Has anyone on the forum converted their sporti from clip ons to raised handlebars without the fairing. would love to see how it looked like.