rosso corsa vs. scura ride

[jam]

Today, I rode my husband's 2003 Scura for about 50 miles, on some foothill sweepers and then the freeway. As soon as i got home, I jumped on my 2003 Rosso Corsa to do an immediate comparison, but only on the freeway. Was mostly interested in the differences in the power feel, delivery, etc, not handling differences. I was surprised at the difference between the 2 in the feel of the power. Wondered what anyone's thoughts were on this. Both bikes have power commanders, custom mapping, and aftermarket pipes: the Scura has BUBs and the RC has custom-made pipes (I've posted pix of my beloved RC on here before.) I looked up the specs for each bike; they seem to be identical, except the RC is supposedly 11 lbs heavier.

My impressions of the Scura: planted, powerful, obvious, beastly, almost-brutal pulling power. got to 90 mph very easily, with room to spare. thought i was in 6th, but thought I'd check just to make sure. Nope, was in 5th!! put it into 6th and it kept pulling a freight train. The RC: power and pull were both there, but somehow it feels more refined, lighter (even tho it's a heavier bike), more dancing on the road, more subtle??? (my speedo's been non-op for a long time, so i couldn't compare the speeds, but i've put a bunch of miles on the RC, and i think my speeds on the RC were comparable to the Scura's on the ride). No less power, pull, or speed - it just felt lighter or more subtle in doing it. don't know how else to describe it. Anyone have this experience, or can explain??? Was an interesting (and very pleasurable) "test"....

Oh, the Scura had new tires on it - Dunlop 616s, and the RC has fairly fresh Dunlop Roadsmarts, but i don't think that explains the different feel.....

[jam]

Btw, this is the same RC that I burned up the left cylinder on, requiring an engine rebuild this past summer. It's been fine ever since - have put probably 5000 miles on it since then(odo is gone too, but i keep a logbook at every gas stop; just haven't added up all the miles recently...), including an 1800-mile ride thru northern California and southern Oregon in Oct. Great 6-day ride.

[v11cafe]

You say both bikes are 2003, I guess that is number plates, not actual production date.

MG did a lot of refining job(due to Aprilia management) to the V11 model in 2003, some of them were sold in late 2003, some in 2004 and after.

One easy detail for production year is to check if there is a front crossover(front of alternator cover), or frame num.

 

As for your remarks I feel also the same, riding my 2004 cafe sport and a friend's 2002 Lemans

 

...power and pull were both there, but somehow it feels more refined, lighter (even tho it's a heavier bike), more dancing on the road, more subtle???

[Baldini]

As said already the 2003> bikes are (reputedly cos I haven't ridden one) better sorted from factory. The Scura is a 2002 bike (reg presumably in 2003), whereas the RC is a 2003 bike including changes later model had.

Ohlins on Scura had famously soft springs from factory & took some setting up inc often stiffer springs by owner. Not sure what RC came with but Ohlins are reputed to be better set up out of the box.

Tyres can have a huge effect on feel (light/heavy/precision/subtlety etc) according to type & amount of wear.

Is it possible RC has PC/FI set up slightly better than Scura (by you/shop) ?

 

KB

[fotoguzzi]

you could get a bicycle speedo like a Sigma and solve both the odometer and speedo problem for about 30 bucks.. It will likely be MORE accurate than the stock unit too.

[richard100t]

The extra bit of fairing on the Lemans will give you a better ride on the freeway than the Scura screen. Different tires, fairing, suspension setup, and exhaust all add up to a different ride. When you try to compare motorcycles its best to ride them on the same roads too. A freeway ride is going to give you a completely different experience than a twisty backroad.

I have a Rosso Mandello and a friend of mine has a 2002 Lemans and I've ridden them back to back and there are major differences. They come mostly from suspension setup and the clipons are a lot higher on the lemans than mine. The engines are of course pretty close. You can put a 160 or a 170 size tire on the back and that changes things too. The main thing is that you love the bike!

[Tom M]

As mentioned earlier the factory ECU mapping changed after '02. That alone makes a difference, but other possibilities are:

- stock ECU or "race" ECU that came with the MG TI exhaust kit?

- Custom PCIII maps or off-the-shelf?

- Stock exhaust crossover or aftermarket?

- Stock or modified intake?

 

I have both stock and race ECUs for my bike with PCIII maps for each and the bike runs much different depending on which ECU I'm using.

[jam]

Thanks for all of your replies!! Let me try to answer them. Both of the bikes have PC IIIs and have been custom-mapped, but by different people, both of whom I trust a fair amount to do a good job on the dyno. Neither bike has the MG TI exhaust kit; the Scura has a BUB setup (no crossover any more) and the RC has custom-made pipes (no crossover either). I think they both have K & N intakes now? (the Scura used to belong to Jean-Mark Arechiga/Dr. Know, whom some of you might know and remember, and maybe even know the bike??)

I was comparing the rides freeway to freeway only (trying to keep it apples to apples as much as possible), and was mostly surprised by the difference in the feel of the power - felt like a qualitative rather than quantitative difference, but just based on feel, not any numbers. On the Scura, I felt more like I was riding IN the power/pull, where as on the RC, I felt more like I was riding on top of it somehow. I've always felt like I was riding astride a big, powerful warmblood stallion on the RC, as opposed to feeling like I was in the actual belly of the beast on the Scura.

Handling: a whole different story. At low speeds, the Scura feels very squirrelly to me: the front end feels like it's wandering all over the place. (Tho it did just get revalved with a supersport kit, but maybe not totally dialled in??) None of that wandering feel on the RC AT ALL. The Scura felt much better at higher speeds, but I haven't ridden it enough to develop confidence on it in the curves. They both have Ohlins, of course.

And I'm embarrassed to say that I actually got a Sigma bike speedo about a year ago, after reading about that solution here on v11 (thank you all), but have not installed it. I'm embarrassed to say that it's lying around the garage somewhere. I've gotten so used to no speedo, and using my gas-stop logbook system, that I kinda lost the incentive to delve into installing the Sigma. Just kinda kept on riding. And I've actually liked riding the RC by feel and vision, and getting rid of the tendency to look at the speedo in the twisties. Yes, it'd be handy for staying out of trouble on the straights and the freeways, but I've kinda developed a bit of a feel for the legal limits, etc.

So, I'll have to keep doing "field research" on the 2 bikes, and see how my impressions of the Scura evolve. Of course, I welcome any additional thoughts anyone has.... Thank you all again - very interesting stuff.

PS - And yes, MOST important thing is that I love my RC. I felt like a piece of me was missing when it was down for the engine rebuild. I had other motos to ride, but they just didn't fill the hole in my heart.....

[Baldini]

Have you ridden one of the new Guzzis - a Griso or Breva? I think some of the difference between RC/Scura might be faired/unfaired & set up, but Guzzis feel smoother & more refined model by model over many years....relatively speaking! You might find latest Carc models even further down same road?

 

KB

[slowkitty]

Handling: a whole different story. At low speeds, the Scura feels very squirrelly to me: the front end feels like it's wandering all over the place.

 

That is how I felt about my Scura. However, after riding her a while, it seems that she needs a firm hand and that like a canine, she can sense fear, so do not exhibit that.

[jam]

Well, S-Kitty, I don't know if you were kitting (haha!) or not, that the Scura can sense fear, but I swear I had that very thought riding it on Sunday - that it would be able to sense any fear on my part, and that would make things even worse. So I tried really hard to be brave - but not stupid. One other little factor I left out in the original post: it was raining pretty good during the ride, and some of the non-freeway foothill curvy sections were starting to flood a bit, so conditions were dicey to start with, on top of the new tires. (Does one actually scrub in tires in the rain?? I'm guessing not quite as quickly, coz less friction...) I'm hoping the bike will give me another chance soon, under less "complicated" condtions. Anxious to try to isolate some of the various factors....

I've ridden a 2007 Griso, and (I think) same-year Breva. Rode a 2008 1200 Sport for a little bit on a track. It felt almost too smooth and not classic-guzzi-like, the little bit I rode it. (I thought the brakes were really soft, also.) Those rides were all several years ago, though, before or right when I got my RC. Would be interesting to try them again now, after having so much more seat time on the RC.

[Baldini]

... Would be interesting to try them again now, after having so much more seat time on the RC.

 

Probably make the RC feel like an animal!

 

KB

[Skeeve]

Today, I rode my husband's 2003 Scura ... As soon as i got home, I jumped on my 2003 Rosso Corsa to do an immediate comparison, but only on the freeway. Was mostly interested in the differences in the power feel, delivery, etc, not handling differences. I was surprised at the difference between the 2 in the feel of the power...

 

Scura: planted, powerful, obvious, beastly, almost-brutal pulling power.

RC: power and pull were both there, but somehow it feels more refined, lighter (even tho it's a heavier bike), more dancing on the road, more subtle?...No less power, pull, or speed - it just felt lighter or more subtle in doing it. don't know how else to describe it. Anyone have this experience, or can explain???

 

Scura: Guzzi's knockoff of the RAM aluminum clutch [insert mechanical grenade warning here] takes weight out of the bike, but more significantly, less rotating mass & less wt in the driveline; that's where the immediacy & "rawness" you mention come from. Also, w/o the RC's greater wind protection, more of your attention is distracted from the inputs to the handling you're making, so that's where I suspect some of the difference in handling you notice btw the models comes from.

 

Rosso Corsa: more flywheel effect from the standard [tho' much lighter than Tonti models] twin-plate clutch means smoother power delivery and easier drivability, and with the full fairing, a more planted front end and less turbulence to distract you from your perceptions of the handling.

 

Also, the different exhaust systems and fueling setups will of course affect myriad small details in the power output. You're comparing apples to oranges, basically.

 

That's my theory, & I'm sticking to it...

[jam]

Well, I just found out today after telling my husband about your post, Skeeve, that this Scura has an Ed Milich modified steel Cali clutch. He said Ed put one in after the stock aluminum clutch grenaded in Jean-Mark's driveway (as you mentioned!!), right when Jean-Mark was finishing a ride. Didn't know that. Ed shaved the steel one down, tho maybe it's still not quite as light as aluminum, but still lighter than the RC's. So your theory still applies?? (Sounded good to me anyway....). And I think you all made a good oint, in that the fairing does more than I realized, especialy since I'm short (5'3"), and so am pretty much completely tucked in behind the windshield, which is nice.

Anxious to do more side-by-side testing, especially sans rain. I got in a good, 250-mile ride on the RC today, and was thinking of taking the Scura out tomorrow if it doesn't rain, but my husband said he may want to commandeer his own bike tomorrow. The nerve....

Yes, the RC felt like an animal today - an animal in top shape, and on a mission. I am absolutely addicted to it.

 

Merry Xmas, all!!!

[gstallons]

Well, I just found out today after telling my husband about your post, Skeeve, that this Scura has an Ed Milich modified steel Cali clutch. He said Ed put one in after the stock aluminum clutch grenaded in Jean-Mark's driveway (as you mentioned!!), right when Jean-Mark was finishing a ride. Didn't know that. Ed shaved the steel one down, tho maybe it's still not quite as light as aluminum, but still lighter than the RC's. So your theory still applies?? (Sounded good to me anyway....). And I think you all made a good oint, in that the fairing does more than I realized, especialy since I'm short (5'3"), and so am pretty much completely tucked in behind the windshield, which is nice.

Anxious to do more side-by-side testing, especially sans rain. I got in a good, 250-mile ride on the RC today, and was thinking of taking the Scura out tomorrow if it doesn't rain, but my husband said he may want to commandeer his own bike tomorrow. The nerve....

Yes, the RC felt like an animal today - an animal in top shape, and on a mission. I am absolutely addicted to it.

 

Merry Xmas, all!!!

 

 

Are jam & jami the same?