Bad vibration in 2001 California Special

[ArtD]

First off, hi again everyone, its been a while. Lot of changes, moved back to Florida,long story and had to sell the bikes to do that.Having done that, and since going Guzzi-less was not an option, I just got another 2001 California Special..and this one will NOT be sold, my estate can deal with it someday.

 

ANYWAY....I got the old girl at a pretty decent price, and had to stick a battery in , get it running, etc. The bike had been sitting for a while, about 6 months. The bike has almost exactly 20,000 miles on it. I had a 60+ mile home so I had a good chance to evaluate things. Everything is nice and snug, the clutch and gearbox are perfect, new brakes, new tires, I'm betting a new clutch at some point not too long ago. All is fine except... Here's the deal: there is what I would consider to be a bad vibration right around 3,000 rpm's that comes through the floorboards. In fact, its there off idle , from 1,500 to 3,000 rpms, only when in gear, under acceleration. it builds to 3,000 and then It seems to smooth out after that. There is virtually no vibration in the handlebars, its through floorboards, you can really feel it in your feet, and, to a point through the seat. The The guy I got it from gave the usual, "its always done that", and said he put about 5,000 miles on when he had the bike. He also said he set the throttle bodies by ear....

 

Moving along....The next day I properly set the throttle bodies with the Twinmax, they were totally out to lunch. That helped, but no cure, the vibration is still there. Nothing is loose, the exhaust is tight, as is everything else. My former CA special did not do this...but interestingly it did not have floorboards on it either. Ok...if this was a car, I would say it has a quite worn carrier bearing in the driveshaft, and/or bad u-joints. This is the exact symptom of that, but, unlike a car, one cannot just get underneath and determine it in a few moments. Here its a big nasty job, which I will tackle if necessary...the key words being.."if necessary". Any thoughts? Any magic bullet I have overlooked? Any way to determine this without tearing the bike apart? Any other suggestions for this that I need to know about? Would checking and setting the TPS fix this? This is sort of off-topic, but I know the vast amount of Guzzi knowledge that is here in this group, I'm confident that there will be some excellent suggestions forthcoming. Thanks everyone.

[Baldini]

When UJ goes it's quite a distinct vibration from around right hand footrest - as you'd expect! Is it more noticeable on right? Have you tried getting it up on a stand & listening around UJ tunnel, engine off, rotating rear wheel? Is there excess backlash in drive line, knocks?

 

KB

[fotoguzzi]

you could look at the swing arm pivot pins and be sure they have the SA centered.. could your rear tire need balancing? I've had floor boards and if anything they have less vibration that my peg model Bassa.

[guzzimeister]

First off, hi again everyone, its been a while. Lot of changes, moved back to Florida,long story and had to sell the bikes to do that.Having done that, and since going Guzzi-less was not an option, I just got another 2001 California Special..and this one will NOT be sold, my estate can deal with it someday.

 

ANYWAY....I got the old girl at a pretty decent price, and had to stick a battery in , get it running, etc. The bike had been sitting for a while, about 6 months. The bike has almost exactly 20,000 miles on it. I had a 60+ mile home so I had a good chance to evaluate things. Everything is nice and snug, the clutch and gearbox are perfect, new brakes, new tires, I'm betting a new clutch at some point not too long ago. All is fine except... Here's the deal: there is what I would consider to be a bad vibration right around 3,000 rpm's that comes through the floorboards. In fact, its there off idle , from 1,500 to 3,000 rpms, only when in gear, under acceleration. it builds to 3,000 and then It seems to smooth out after that. There is virtually no vibration in the handlebars, its through floorboards, you can really feel it in your feet, and, to a point through the seat. The The guy I got it from gave the usual, "its always done that", and said he put about 5,000 miles on when he had the bike. He also said he set the throttle bodies by ear....

 

Moving along....The next day I properly set the throttle bodies with the Twinmax, they were totally out to lunch. That helped, but no cure, the vibration is still there. Nothing is loose, the exhaust is tight, as is everything else. My former CA special did not do this...but interestingly it did not have floorboards on it either. Ok...if this was a car, I would say it has a quite worn carrier bearing in the driveshaft, and/or bad u-joints. This is the exact symptom of that, but, unlike a car, one cannot just get underneath and determine it in a few moments. Here its a big nasty job, which I will tackle if necessary...the key words being.."if necessary". Any thoughts? Any magic bullet I have overlooked? Any way to determine this without tearing the bike apart? Any other suggestions for this that I need to know about? Would checking and setting the TPS fix this? This is sort of off-topic, but I know the vast amount of Guzzi knowledge that is here in this group, I'm confident that there will be some excellent suggestions forthcoming. Thanks everyone.

 

Hi

 

very quick and easy test. Take bike up to 30 mph, and simultaneously pull clutch in and roll off the throttle so bike is freewheeling. Then hit the kill switch. If you still have this vibration it's the UJs. Doesn't always manifest itself as right floor board only, but as the guys here say it usually does. At 29000 miles though it should be good, a friend of mine took one to 120K plus.

 

Warning! When you do this pick quiet stretch of well surfaced road. Also allow bike to come to a complete standstill before letting the clutch out or you will lock the back wheel. Practice at slow speeds first until you are confident.

 

Hope this helps

 

Guzz

[ArtD]

Hi

 

very quick and easy test. Take bike up to 30 mph, and simultaneously pull clutch in and roll off the throttle so bike is freewheeling. Then hit the kill switch. If you still have this vibration it's the UJs. Doesn't always manifest itself as right floor board only, but as the guys here say it usually does. At 29000 miles though it should be good, a friend of mine took one to 120K plus.

 

Warning! When you do this pick quiet stretch of well surfaced road. Also allow bike to come to a complete standstill before letting the clutch out or you will lock the back wheel. Practice at slow speeds first until you are confident.

 

Hope this helps

 

Guzz

 

Thank you! This looks like an excellent way to get some idea about the u-joints without tearing the thing apart. Since I posted earlier I got it up on the centerstand and checked the freeplay in the rear wheel when its in gear. Its about 2 and 1/2 inches up and down, and I have been told that's normal. There is a very faint clicking sound as you rock the wheel up and down with the gearbox in neutral, I can't imagine that is creating the vibration. I checked the exhaust, both sides, with the bike running right around the 3,000rpm point, while its close to the floorboard brackets, it does not hit anywhere and there are no signs it has been hitting. Just on a hunch, I'm going to set the valves, tight valves could, maybe cause some of this just off of idle, but there is not a miss here, per say, the motor pulls strong, she just has this very irritating vibration.

[fotoguzzi]

..The next day I properly set the throttle bodies with the Twinmax, they were totally out to lunch.

 

did you sync at 3k rpm or just at idle? I balance the TB's above idle then bring idle into sync with the air bleed screws.

[Tom M]

Check to see if the marks on the two halfs of the driveshaft line up. I don't know if having the ujoints out of alignment would cause the exact problem that you're having but it's worth a look.

[Skeeve]

Check to see if the marks on the two halfs of the driveshaft line up. I don't know if having the ujoints out of alignment would cause the exact problem that you're having but it's worth a look.

 

Good suggestion, but I don't think that applies: iirc, the cruiser models are single-UJ designs, so there's nothing to "line up" in this case...

[Tom M]

Check to see if the marks on the two halfs of the driveshaft line up. I don't know if having the ujoints out of alignment would cause the exact problem that you're having but it's worth a look.

 

Good suggestion, but I don't think that applies: iirc, the cruiser models are single-UJ designs, so there's nothing to "line up" in this case...

 

[ArtD]

Sort of a update here.... As per Guzzimeister's suggestion, I did that. I also did a couple of other things, and everything has seemed to help a bit. Before I hit the road for that diagnostic test... The valves were off, set them to world specs. The plugs were both a bit fouled, replaced them with Iridium plugs. Then, took it for a ride and tried a couple of things and did some observations as well. The vibration is the same in both floorboards. I accelerated up to 30-40 mph, got the revs around 3,500, pulled the clutch in, rolled off the throttle, and hit the kill switch. I did that twice, the second time at a slightly higher speed. The vibration vanishes completely. I also noticed that its only really pronounced when under acceleration. As soon as you roll out of the throttle, it stops, this vibration is ONLY under light acceleration. It clears out for the most part under hard acceleration, and, when there is no throttle, it completely vanishes, no matter what the rpm's are. Remembering the old days, and this is with cars, mind you, if you did that with, say a MGB or a Fiat 124 with bad u-joints, it would give out a shudder, become very pronounced when you would back off the throttle. You could call a bad joint every time this way. Under acceleration the "slack" was being taken up, backing off of it loosened things up. This is a different machine, with different dynamics, but one would think that, allowing "slop" to get into the drivetrain when rotating fast, it would get worse, not vanish completely. Also, the driveshaft/carrier brg does not care about being under power, when you pull the clutch in, it should not instantly vanish when moving....I'm thinking that....I think:) The exhaust is not hitting anywhere. Not the centerstand, not the kickstand, nothing. The motor mounting bolts are tight.I'm starting to believe there is some sort of throttle body issue here. I'm going to get the Twinmax back out and I'm going to really put it on the money at 3,000rpms, balance at idle as well, and make sure its idling at 1,500. I'm about to join the "they all do that" and wait for a reason to tear it apart. Except....I am aware of what failure of these parts can mean.

[Skeeve]

I think we could use Pete's input on this matter: is this the manifestation of his "dreaded daga-daga noise" that is the symptom of the bottom end bearings failing? Maybe the P.O. of your Guzzi liked doing wheelies sans Roper plate?

 

Hate to foster Guzzi-chondria, but something is definitely awry w/ your bike: best of luck sorting it out!

[richard100t]

If the bike only has 20k on it I'm thinking that the p/o did all his own work to the bike and thats what the problem is. Definitely check the tps setting first, if it has a k&n filter the setting will have to be higher than normal. After you get the tps right, then you should sync the tb's. Since you've already set the valves to spec you can let that be. Most of these bikes are pretty bulletproof if the person maintaining them knows what to do.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Just a suggestion, if you have the gauge type throttle balance tool you could strap it to the bars and check the balance while riding under different load conditions.

[pete roper]

All I'd say is that if you are trying to travel anywhere and are accelerating with anything other than the tiniest of throttle openings below 3,000RPM of course the wretched thing is going to shudder and vibrate. it's not supposed to be run at such low RPM.

 

Try keeping the engine speed higher unless you are just trickling along in traffic and be prepared to change down quickly in that circumstance if you want to make a quick getaway. Even the Calis with their heavier flywheels don't like being asked to take big throttle at low RPM. As the owner says it smooths out over 3,000 RPM. There's a reason for that. Also lugging it around down low like that will beat the 3205ATN9 bearings on the gearbox input and output shafts to bits. their cages will break up and spit bits of themselves through the seals and, at the back of the box, the speedo drive.The entire driveline will tke a pounding too leading to damaged splines and potential crownwheel and pinion damage.

 

Stop trying to ride it like a Harley or a big Japanese Cruiser and start riding it like a Guzzi.

 

Pete

[ArtD]

All I'd say is that if you are trying to travel anywhere and are accelerating with anything other than the tiniest of throttle openings below 3,000RPM of course the wretched thing is going to shudder and vibrate. it's not supposed to be run at such low RPM.

 

Try keeping the engine speed higher unless you are just trickling along in traffic and be prepared to change down quickly in that circumstance if you want to make a quick getaway. Even the Calis with their heavier flywheels don't like being asked to take big throttle at low RPM. As the owner says it smooths out over 3,000 RPM. There's a reason for that. Also lugging it around down low like that will beat the 3205ATN9 bearings on the gearbox input and output shafts to bits. their cages will break up and spit bits of themselves through the seals and, at the back of the box, the speedo drive.The entire driveline will tke a pounding too leading to damaged splines and potential crownwheel and pinion damage.

 

Stop trying to ride it like a Harley or a big Japanese Cruiser and start riding it like a Guzzi.

 

Pete

 

Hi again Pete, ok......I know what you mean about the lugging! This is my 2nd Cali, I never have had a problem keeping the revs up. this is not that, this is almost a buzzing in the floorboards, it acts almost like a harmonic imbalance. It "buzzes" right around 3,000, and is basically gone by 3,500. I suppose if I were to rev it to 3,500 everytime I took off, then I would not have the issue, but nowadays I live in an urban area and that is not really an option. This can't be right...I keep finding little things, and I keep fixing little things. Today I pulled both floorboards off, and found where they had been hitting the exhaust, the one on the right was hitting more that the shifter side, but they both had been hitting the exhaust, but you could not tell or see unless they were pulled off completely. They are solidly mounted, btw, that is right....right? Two 19mm nuts, obviously not factory had been put on the right hand side(brake) as spacers, obviously someone had tried to address this issue in some way, and/or whatever the factory had there was not doing...something. Thinking "got it now", I ground away on the floorboard brackets, put them back on, was already to do a post here, thought, "let me ride it just for jollies"....vibration is still there. Not as pronounced..almost more "buzzy", if you can sort of get my drift with that. Is there supposed to be anything rubber in the mounting system??? I'm ready to put pegs on, I did not mind them at all on my other Cali, and I don't really care for the shifting with the floorboards anyway. BUT...will that really fix anything? my gut tells me something is not right here.