OK, are we (am I) being too hard on poor ol' post-V11 Moto Guzzi?

[felix42o]

So what do you want to see in the future then? Terblanche's blueprint for the future or something different? I for one thought he was spot on. As far as more power - is this what MG should have its future dictated by? If so, Motus should have had GUZZI on 'em and hooked up to shaftie. MG, build me a Terblanche & sign me up!

 

I don't think power is as much of an issue. Dealer support and a no-excuses, high quality build standard would go miles further. If they got something together that looked good, performed well, and was built with solid switch gear, drivetrain and and hardware that didn't corrode or quit working before the warranty expired they'd at least have some kind of leg to stand on. You can't have mediocre performance, odd looks AND reliability issues and hope for success.

[belfastguzzi]

That may explain my local dealers reluctance to order in bikes. I know he was at a dealer conference, so his head was probably filled with new models coming in, investment etc. He is probably waiting for them rather than the showroom dust gatherers.

But it seems there are no details, there are never any details, it's just, "Guzzi are investing millions, they're really committed to big things... some time in the future'. The guy from the dealers was saying that when he gets a service bulletin in, he can believe that... but that's as far as concrete, believable facts go: the rest is just talk.

 

I don't see that your dealer could be waiting for new models. The new models are here now.

If he is waiting until 2013, then he's a dreamer-spoofer, not a dealer.

 

The business of becoming an official dealer seems quite flexible now. A few years ago the deal was that the full range of bikes had to be in the showroom: sellers and no-hopers alike, That's one of the reasons that local man was reluctant. Then he got a deal where he only had to take a few of the range.

[GuzziMoto]

WTF????

We are talking about Moto Guzzi here.

The same Moto Guzzi that came out with the Daytona in what, '93, after the development started before 1990. The Daytona evolved over six years to spawn Centauro and the eventually spawn the V11. The V11 then soldiered on for what, six or seven years? Then since 2006 we have had three completely new bike lines with more then six new versions as well as a few upgrades of older model lines. There have been more new Guzzi's in the last five years then they normally produce in ten or fifteen years.

Do I wish they did a street legal version of the MGS01? Yeah, but if they had they probably would not have sold well enough to justify the investment as a modern sport bike from a mainstream maker would out perform it for half the money and all the "Guzzi loyalists" would complain that it is too this or not enough that.

I also wish they could have kept making the V11 but I understand that like Buell they did not have the resources to support the new lines as well as the old.

Guzzi is a small motorcycle maker and even with deeper pockets of a company like Piaggio growth has to be paced so that demand can keep pace with supply. If Piaggio were to invest wheelbarrows full of money in Guzzi and create a large number of all new models all at once it would kill the company as there would be no one buying them and Guzzi would go tits up sitting on all those unsold motorcycles.

Is Guzzi a perfect company? No. They don't say "Going out of business since 1921" for nothing. But my wife and I own three Guzzi's, all three of them have been very reliable and even more enjoyable. Far more enjoyable and longer lasting then any other motorcycles I have owned.

[RHIP]

Hey, this was supposed to be a "positive " thread! As long as they put out anything with the full-size, air-cooled v-twin, it will be a bike with character and a wonderful sound. Guzzis handle well, they are easier than most to service, and are usually reliable.

 

That being said (so much for positive) how would YOU like to be a Guzzi dealer? Back in the day, the original Tonti's handled better than BMWs and Harleys, and were usually faster to boot. A decent Guzzi dealer could amass a large enough group of customers to keep the doors open - you saw them on the road, and realized that the bikes were a viable alternative to an R80 or anything of it's ilk.

 

Now what? The Stelvio undercuts the GS by a grand or two, but you lose thousands in the first year of depreciation. Nothing else in the range is really an option - the Norge was five years too late, and although much cheaper, is in a no-win catchup race with the RT. There are no sport bikes. The Griso is a nice power cruiser, but what is going to get a buyer onto it rather than a Monster or a V-rod?

 

Ducati has invested millions into keeping a twin competitive. If Guzzi doesn't do the same, it can only survive as a manufacturer by going the Enfield/Ural/Harley route of offering a new version of vintage iron. I'm not sure Guzzi sales would be markedly different if all they offered was the current California Classic, in different trim levels, really refining the bike and getting some marketing done. If I was trying to make a living selling them, I would rather push a known and recognized model than have one Stelvio or Griso on the floor, and try to explain why a customer should buy them instead of their competition. And then be staring at those two gathering dust for years, as most dealers end up doing. Maybe I'm lucky to have a good local dealer (Judson Cycle), but what amazes me is that there are any Guzzi dealers at all.

[pete roper]

Given your terrible experiences with 'The Hammer' Dave I'm not surprised you are more than a bit cynical. The thing is though that the new bikes ARE, generally, very reliable and a joy to own and ride. No, they aren't the most powerfull machines on the road but they ARE a superb 'Road' bike and a consumate fast tourer. I've covered major distances in both the USA and here in Oz on my G11 and G12 and have had precicely ZERO problems with the G12 and one 'Major' one with the G11 when its dashboard ent tits. It had always been noisy. I reckon it was stuffed from the get-go, I just didn't recognize it as such.

 

Some points to remember. The 8V motor IS already liquid cooled, its just that the liquid is oil rather than Glycol. Yes, if you want to believe what the press say then its 'Competition' is the Monster and V-rod, plus a few other 'Muscle Cruisers' (Whatever they are??? Stupid name.) The thing is it is different enough to stand on its own two feet. The Stelvio is aimed at the GS 'Polar Bear Smuggling' crowd. It's a very capable 'Soft Roader' but it'll never be a dirt bike any more than a GS or a, (Shudder.) V-Strom is a dirt bike.

 

The Cali is well past its use by date and you can see that the 'New' one will be a disaster because the corn cob pipists and suspender-twangers have already stated they'd never buy one because it doesn't have pushrods, points and carbs even though they can't seem to grasp the fact that such anachronisms are DEAD AND GONE. They all want an Eldorado that will produce 130 rear wheel HP and be over 1500CC. Good luck with that .

 

While I wouldn't want one I'd love to see a 'Nuovo Daytona' but for some reason the gnomes of Noale refuse to see that such a machine WOULDN'T cut into Aprilia sales because it would be for an entirely different 'Market Segment' You might as well try to plough the sea as get Noale to see that though.

 

Despite the hair-tearing by the doomsmiths I have to say that the current line up, with the exceptions of the poor old Cali and any of the poxy smallblocks, is better than it has been for years and the build quality and reliability is certainly no worse than any other marque. Yes, it's frustrating having to deal with dealers who are venal and ignorant of the meaning of the words 'Customer Service' and 'Mechanics' who aren't and at the moment the national 'Management' in the UK seems to beggar belief with their decision making processes and the outcomes they 'Decide' but overall I think that things, at least here, are better than they have been for years, decades even!

 

Went down to Sydney last week for a training session on the New Doso 1200 and the RSV-4 APRCS. That was interesting. I have to say though that the 1200 Doso looks a bit like a very expensive V-Strom to me though . It'd have to be more exciting than a shitbox 'strom though!!!!!!

 

Pete

[richard100t]

Given your terrible experiences with 'The Hammer' Dave I'm not surprised you are more than a bit cynical. The thing is though that the new bikes ARE, generally, very reliable and a joy to own and ride. No, they aren't the most powerfull machines on the road but they ARE a superb 'Road' bike and a consumate fast tourer. I've covered major distances in both the USA and here in Oz on my G11 and G12 and have had precicely ZERO problems with the G12 and one 'Major' one with the G11 when its dashboard ent tits. It had always been noisy. I reckon it was stuffed from the get-go, I just didn't recognize it as such.

 

Some points to remember. The 8V motor IS already liquid cooled, its just that the liquid is oil rather than Glycol. Yes, if you want to believe what the press say then its 'Competition' is the Monster and V-rod, plus a few other 'Muscle Cruisers' (Whatever they are??? Stupid name.) The thing is it is different enough to stand on its own two feet. The Stelvio is aimed at the GS 'Polar Bear Smuggling' crowd. It's a very capable 'Soft Roader' but it'll never be a dirt bike any more than a GS or a, (Shudder.) V-Strom is a dirt bike.

 

The Cali is well past its use by date and you can see that the 'New' one will be a disaster because the corn cob pipists and suspender-twangers have already stated they'd never buy one because it doesn't have pushrods, points and carbs even though they can't seem to grasp the fact that such anachronisms are DEAD AND GONE. They all want an Eldorado that will produce 130 rear wheel HP and be over 1500CC. Good luck with that .

 

While I wouldn't want one I'd love to see a 'Nuovo Daytona' but for some reason the gnomes of Noale refuse to see that such a machine WOULDN'T cut into Aprilia sales because it would be for an entirely different 'Market Segment' You might as well try to plough the sea as get Noale to see that though.

 

Despite the hair-tearing by the doomsmiths I have to say that the current line up, with the exceptions of the poor old Cali and any of the poxy smallblocks, is better than it has been for years and the build quality and reliability is certainly no worse than any other marque. Yes, it's frustrating having to deal with dealers who are venal and ignorant of the meaning of the words 'Customer Service' and 'Mechanics' who aren't and at the moment the national 'Management' in the UK seems to beggar belief with their decision making processes and the outcomes they 'Decide' but overall I think that things, at least here, are better than they have been for years, decades even!

 

Went down to Sydney last week for a training session on the New Doso 1200 and the RSV-4 APRCS. That was interesting. I have to say though that the 1200 Doso looks a bit like a very expensive V-Strom to me though . It'd have to be more exciting than a shitbox 'strom though!!!!!!

 

Pete

I think Guzzi isnt trying to get the old corn cob pipe smokers to buy the new California. I remember the Vintage doing very well in a comparison a year or two ago with a Harley and a few other big cruisers. They are probably hoping the new one is just bigger and better enough to get good reviews in the motorcycle magazines to attract a new audience. All they really need to do is just get some of the weekend warrior accountant "honey can a take the bike around the block after dinner?" crowd. The larger displacement will generate more sales here in America, I guarantee it. The new California will be lighter and faster than the Harley for sure, and I bet it will give the Vulcan/VStar crowd of bikes a run too.

[belfastguzzi]

Thanks for all the considered replies folks.

As I suspected, the answer is,

YES; and NO.

..

[sullvarni]

Thanks for all the considered replies folks.

As I suspected, the answer is,

YES; and NO.

..

 

I think that's what you expected as far as the replies go "Yes",and i agree with what most people say that we don't want to screw around with the old motor which is what Guzzi is,having said that the New water-cooled motor if it ever arrives should help to get a few more G Gee's out of the old girl "Maybe"!and might get a few more people into whats left of the dealers all-though the V Rod hasn't done anything for Harley.

 

I was in a dealer in British Columbia this summer and he still had a Norge on the floor that was there when i bought my 2002 LeMans,not from him, at the end of 2007 and they still want almost the same price for it "Go figure",ultimately Guzzi will always be a boutique motorcycle maker as in MV,Moto Morini,Benelli,Bimota,so where do you go from here,maybe God knows i don't.

 

Stu.

[galaxiid]

Thanks for all the considered replies folks.

As I suspected, the answer is,

YES; and NO.

..

Or "Maybe" whatever that translates to in Italian. MG do pretty well considering they are a minor manufacturer. The Griso, Bellagio, V7 (less so) all got the media hyped up to an extent. I'd put a Stelvio or Griso in the shed if I could. There are plenty of Griso's sold here in NZ which says something. A cult death metal thing maybe. But I also suspect many MG's sitting unsold new with dealers.

 

There's always a latest and greatest on the block, only last month it was the Multistrada, now this week the press is wetting itself over the Diavel. Next week likely to be the latest BMW 1600 I guess. At the end of the day who cares, my V11 goes great.

 

Except for the tacho that has quit but who needs that?

[theoneandonly]

[quote name='gstallons' date='14 February 2011

 

I will never come to grips with the MGS-01 that never came to be.

 

you never got the mgs-01 in america?

HA! I'VE RIDDEN X2 OF THEM! but then i'm in england.one was registered on the road, the other was a race bike....but we put the trade plate ( temporary workshop registation plate, you can put it on any m-cycle and ride it ....if the police stop you your answer is ...i'm on a test ride officer!)on and rode up to FRED WARRS ( h-d shop) to show it off, on slicks ....very fast indeed ( as long as it doesn't rain)

[al_roethlisberger]

Hrmm, I think we saw this thread in 2002, no wait 2003, or was it 2004,5....

 

I love "Going out of business since 1921". I think I'll put that on a t-shirt.

 

 

If by design or incompetence, I think Guzzi will remain a boutique marque for many years to come. As long as they stay generally viable and "alive", I'm OK with that. I really don't want Guzzi to be Honda.

 

I agree with others that point out for all the current woes, Guzzi has really come a long way in general fit/finish, number of models, and "innovation" in the last few years. As was said earlier, Guzzi saw only a handful of model changes up until the mid 2000s, where they've now released several new models, 8V engines, new shaft-drive designs, and apparently a water cooled engine on the horizon.

 

As a low volume, non unobtanium brand, I think there will always be compromises such as parts-bin switchgear, but as a whole I think Guzzi is in better shape than it has been in years.

 

A buddy of mine at work just found out that I am an MG owner and had to share his pleasure with his V7 Classic. That was unheard of just a few years ago, as that model didn't even exist!

 

Al