richard100t Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 I'm having a little trouble with my clutch. Sometimes when I go down into first and have the clutch lever in the bike still wants to move forward. I've bled the system thoroughly and the slave and master are both in good shape. I did a little research and one of the things that it "could" be is the splines need greased. Has anyone done this without a complete teardown? Any other advice on this problem is of course very much welcome and appreciated!
gstallons Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 Do you own a stand you can put the bike on that will hold the rear wheel up off the ground? If so, put the bike in gear, pull in the clutch and try to have someone turn the rear wheel to see if there is any drag. If so, you will need to do something either external or internal.
stormsedge Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 This was a fairly common problem on early Guzzis because the input splines wore down which did not allow the clutch discs to move properly. Later on (prior to our spines being built), they changed the input spline design which pretty much cured it...but, were it I, I would look for a grease as you are suggesting. Problem here will be to find one that will stay put on the rotating spline without blowing off onto discs. I had a heck of a time getting my clutch bled last time...I'd do that again before tearing into it. k
docc Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 moved to tech topics for better discussion. *just a reminder*: the How To forum is for explanations, procedures, and descriptions. This is the better place for questions and discussion . . .
gstallons Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 If you decide to teardown, the best thing you could do is: after disassembly (1) clean all rust,grease etc. from the splines of the hub and disc. (2) use a dry film graphite spray(APA or LPS-1 has very good products) and coat everything that has a spline and let dry. Reassemble and bleed the clutch to make sure everything will work correctly. p.s. remove the clutch bleeder and apply anti-sieze to the threads of the bleeder screw. Everything that has threads gets ant-sieze or Loctite.
richard100t Posted February 19, 2011 Author Posted February 19, 2011 I re bled the system completely and put in all fresh synthetic fluid today in hopes that it would cure the problem. I've ridden the thing around town quite a bit and so far the problem hasnt recurred. The lever feels perfectly taut and the clutch works as it should. It shifts well and the whole thing. BUT....it is only about 32 degrees outside today so theres no chance of getting it really warmed up to be completely sure yet. Would just a tiny amount of air in the line have caused the symptoms I was having? The lever wasnt soft or spongy before, but I'm thinking that it wasnt as good as it is now either. I hope I dont get the mechanical paranoia or GuzziChondria! So I'm going to cross my fingers and hope it was a simple problem with a simple cure and leave it at that unless and or until it starts acting up again.
gstallons Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 Any air will cause you all kinds of greif. You are dealing with a very small volume so the problem will be magnified.
jrt Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Any air will cause you all kinds of greif. You are dealing with a very small volume so the problem will be magnified. I agree with gstallion's posts (5 and 7). Any air will cause you grief and if you decide to tear down, then use neversieze or locktite. I would advise against using a liquid or grease lubricant on the splines. It *will* get thrown off and make it's way into other stuff at the periphery. Also, grease and rust make an excellent abrasive material that will very effectively (or efficiently?) wear out the inner-body and clutch disc mating surfaces.
moscowphil Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 I greased the splines on my clutch, but it did need a complete strip down - I did it when I replaced the clutch anyway. I used a very small amount of special clutch spline grease that I got through a BMW dealer - BMs have their splines greased as standard, Guzzis don't. I guess I must trust the engineers at BMW more than those at Guzzi!
thumper Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 I had the same problem a few years ago and it was the clutch. The friction plate rivets had let go. Required to pull the trans out and replace the clutch.
gstallons Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I greased the splines on my clutch, but it did need a complete strip down - I did it when I replaced the clutch anyway. I used a very small amount of special clutch spline grease that I got through a BMW dealer - BMs have their splines greased as standard, Guzzis don't. I guess I must trust the engineers at BMW more than those at Guzzi! You will trust them more if you don't service the splines frequently enough and lose the clutch going down the highway, then spend a day or two having a new disc installed and lubricating the splines with that special grease you are talking about.
Keith Foster Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 >I'm having a little trouble with my clutch. Sometimes when I go down into first and have the clutch lever in the bike still wants to move forward. Coincidently I've been noticing the same issue recently, yeah, not long after I'd done a full fluid swap as part of my 48K mi. service. I didn't think I'd let any air get in...but I guess I did. As a former K bike (K75RT + K100RT) I've done several spline lube jobs in years past, but have heard it wasn't needed on our era bikes. Urban myth?
richard100t Posted February 21, 2011 Author Posted February 21, 2011 >I'm having a little trouble with my clutch. Sometimes when I go down into first and have the clutch lever in the bike still wants to move forward. Coincidently I've been noticing the same issue recently, yeah, not long after I'd done a full fluid swap as part of my 48K mi. service. I didn't think I'd let any air get in...but I guess I did. As a former K bike (K75RT + K100RT) I've done several spline lube jobs in years past, but have heard it wasn't needed on our era bikes. Urban myth? Well lets hope that all it needed was a better bleed job and all is well. If thats what was wrong with mine it could be the same with yours. I can tell you that the lever felt like it was working and had good feel when the bike was pulling with the lever in. But when I re bled it and made extra sure there was no air in the line I could tell the difference in the lever. It wasnt a huge difference, but then the problem wasnt really that severe either. One of the things that I really like about this forum is that we can share our experiences with the bikes and troubleshoot problems. A while back I had a problem with a leaking seal in the rear drive and replaced all the seals and it would STILL leak. After I cleaned out all the redline gear oil and put in regular gear oil it stopped leaking. Then another forum member had the same problem and was considering an expensive teardown and I recomended he try the cheap gear oil trick. Saved him some money I think. I know that if I keep the bike long enough I'll have to replace the clutch, but I'm in no hurry go through that operation.
gstallons Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 >I'm having a little trouble with my clutch. Sometimes when I go down into first and have the clutch lever in the bike still wants to move forward. Coincidently I've been noticing the same issue recently, yeah, not long after I'd done a full fluid swap as part of my 48K mi. service. I didn't think I'd let any air get in...but I guess I did. ' /> As a former K bike (K75RT + K100RT) I've done several spline lube jobs in years past, but have heard it wasn't needed on our era bikes. Urban myth? If you owned a pre-Flying Brick model that is what would happen. Oil Heads & Flying Bricks, I am not sure of.......
stefano Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 >I'm having a little trouble with my clutch. Sometimes when I go down into first and have the clutch lever in the bike still wants to move forward. Coincidently I've been noticing the same issue recently, yeah, not long after I'd done a full fluid swap as part of my 48K mi. service. I didn't think I'd let any air get in...but I guess I did. ' /> As a former K bike (K75RT + K100RT) I've done several spline lube jobs in years past, but have heard it wasn't needed on our era bikes. Urban myth? If you owned a pre-Flying Brick model that is what would happen. Oil Heads & Flying Bricks, I am not sure of....... yeah, i've done a couple spline lubes on my airhead. i don't think the problem was a lousy working clutch, (although i have heard of that), i think it was more of an issue where the spline actually rusts, & the splines get sharp, then disappear altogether, then a new trans mainshaft($$$) is in order. the lube (on the airhead) is actually a pretty easy job, after you've done one. i also don't know if oilheads or bricks are prone to this. stef
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