Motus road video

[Baldini]

...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UxLXjjGH4U&feature=player_embedded

[Tom M]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UxLXjjGH4U&feature=player_embedded

 

Is this "would you?" part II? If it is then yes, I would, IF I was convinced that parts would be available for the next decade. I wouldn't want to be the Cannondale dirt bike owner.

 

Here's the Manufacturer's website: http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/ More pics and info on TheKneeslider.com Apparently they will be showing the bike at Daytona this weekend.

[felix42o]

I've been watching this thing pretty closely. It's interesting that for a sport tour bike they went with chain drive (presumably because the engine is tilted so far forward in the frame), and I'm sure it's going to cost north of $20K US, but I hope like hell it works out well. We could use some successful innovation over here, and I'd like to think the current US marketplace will be fairly accepting of a US-made bike that has absolutely nothing in common with the big H-D. That said, the Moto Czysz C-1 also looked promising, and it seems like that tech may not make it off the ground in the end. I think the Motus makes a good argument though. The engine is pretty basic stuff, and should be pretty bullet-proof (sound familiar?).

But what the hell do I know. If it makes it to market, and I can afford to buy one (without losing my wife or my LeMans) I may have to look into it.

[mznyc]

Damm that thing sounds goood! Dry clutch?

As a big fan of V-4's,to me the perfect motor,this is very promising.Ive owned 3 VFR's and an ST1100.Many who have never owned them say they're boring.The quiet UJM exhaust fool the uneducated.Grunt and torque down low,rush of power up top.

The bike that Guzzi has yet to build.The Norge doesn't do it for me.Even the name is un-inspiring.

The Motus,Modern,soulful motor, comfortable and hard bags.Wish they would shaft-drive it though.Quality control yet to be determined.

From the Motus site,like I wrote it myself,

"The MST is a fresh take on the American motorcycle - a comfortable sportbike designed for long distance canyon carving, solo or two-up. After a long autumn ride in 2007, we sat around telling tales and envisioning our ultimate dream bike. “More comfort”, was suggested by the race-replica rider rubbing her wrists and back. “Longer range”, gasped another who sputtered in on fumes. “Better performance”, said the cruiser guy who brought up the rear. Wind protection, light weight, multiple power ports, and sensible seat height were also jotted down.

"

Yes,price will be a problem for most,but ya gotta start somewhere ,and if it's a success, larger numbers will make them available to the masses.Ive been saying for years that I would love to buy an American sport bike but the Buell was not the answer ,as the ancient motor was limited and QC was shite,and for the most part they were ugly.

Love the Scura,but downtime due to fixing crap designs,lackadaisical QC,waiting on parts, indifferent/non-existent customer service from Goose, and nothing exciting on the horizon(please stop regurgitating the Breva in various forms Piaggio!! ) bum me out.

Go Motus!

[Lex]

I'm afraid I see the Motus as the new Excelsior-Henderson.

 

The design makes no sense to me. Why would anybody want a inline motor with chain drive? The only compelling reason to build a bike with an inline motor is to reduce drive line losses with a shaft. Why would anyone build an expensive, complex push-rod valve train and then top it off with a two valve cylinder head? Gee, expensive and inefficient. I must admit I do appreciate the self adjusting valves but with valve inspection periods ranging from 15 to 27K miles in modern motorcycles valve adjustment is hardly a major problem for the average rider.

 

By the shape of the valve covers the valves are parallel, i.e. a "wedge" head. This shape limits the size of the valves and pushes the spark plug over to the side of the combustion chamber. Hardly a recipe for a modern, efficient combustion chamber. After limiting power with these bizarre choices they spend big bucks on direct injection, why? You can make power with an inefficient engine design if it is big enough but you will pay the price in terms of fuel milage, bulk and weight. Why would anyone put a 90 degree power turn between the engine and transmission? Other designers are stacking transmission shafts to make the engine/ transmission shorter, these rocket scientists are putting an extra part (a heavy, expensive part to boot) between the engine and transmission making them even longer then required by the in-line placement of the V-4 engine, why? A chain driven sport touring bike, Why? Chains are efficient, cheap, light and allow easy gearing changes. The 90 degree power turn kills the efficiency, low cost and light weight but I guess they keep easy gearing changes.

 

Maybe this is the next big thing but all I see is a bunch of parts that look like they were picked off a menu with no overall plan. I can't see these guys having a design review or using DTUPC (Design To Unit Price Cost, a method of controlling costs in a finished product) like we do where I work. Did they do a market survey and find a huge demand for this strange combination of features? I hope I'm wrong, I'd like to see another choice for US built motorcycles but I have trouble seeing these guys being around in five years, more likely less. Oh well, it sounds good in the video.

 

Lex

[richard100t]

I'm afraid I see the Motus as the new Excelsior-Henderson.

 

The design makes no sense to me. Why would anybody want a inline motor with chain drive? The only compelling reason to build a bike with an inline motor is to reduce drive line losses with a shaft. Why would anyone build an expensive, complex push-rod valve train and then top it off with a two valve cylinder head? Gee, expensive and inefficient. I must admit I do appreciate the self adjusting valves but with valve inspection periods ranging from 15 to 27K miles in modern motorcycles valve adjustment is hardly a major problem for the average rider.

 

By the shape of the valve covers the valves are parallel, i.e. a "wedge" head. This shape limits the size of the valves and pushes the spark plug over to the side of the combustion chamber. Hardly a recipe for a modern, efficient combustion chamber. After limiting power with these bizarre choices they spend big bucks on direct injection, why? You can make power with an inefficient engine design if it is big enough but you will pay the price in terms of fuel milage, bulk and weight. Why would anyone put a 90 degree power turn between the engine and transmission? Other designers are stacking transmission shafts to make the engine/ transmission shorter, these rocket scientists are putting an extra part (a heavy, expensive part to boot) between the engine and transmission making them even longer then required by the in-line placement of the V-4 engine, why? A chain driven sport touring bike, Why? Chains are efficient, cheap, light and allow easy gearing changes. The 90 degree power turn kills the efficiency, low cost and light weight but I guess they keep easy gearing changes.

 

Maybe this is the next big thing but all I see is a bunch of parts that look like they were picked off a menu with no overall plan. I can't see these guys having a design review or using DTUPC (Design To Unit Price Cost, a method of controlling costs in a finished product) like we do where I work. Did they do a market survey and find a huge demand for this strange combination of features? I hope I'm wrong, I'd like to see another choice for US built motorcycles but I have trouble seeing these guys being around in five years, more likely less. Oh well, it sounds good in the video.

 

Lex

People buy motorcycles because they prrovoke an emotional response. They arent typewriters or minivans where everything has to make sense. I mean Harley keeps putting out that same old dog every year and people still buy them. Just because it doesnt look good or efficient on paper doesnt meant anything. Once you're in the showroom sitting on one and turn the key, thats when you really decide if you buy a motorcycle and at that time you probably arent thinking about DTUPC at all.

[felix42o]

Well, a couple things I guess. You have to change the direction of drive somewhere, either with a bevel in the engine, or the rear end. Chain wheels are cheaper to make and lighter, and the heavy bevel can at least be centrally located when it's around the engine. Then it's not unsprung weight. Also, judging by the angle of the block, which is tilted pretty far forward, maybe a shaft would have had the u joints angled more than you'd want, and that doesn't matter with the motus set up. Chains, like everything else mechanical, keep getting better and more reliable, and of course offer easy gearing options, as you mentioned. Also, the engine makes a lot of power from what I've read, and the guys behind it (Pratt and miller) aren't new at pushrods tech. These are the same guys that build the race motors for the vette lemans series cars. As for being another E-H, I dunno. There's a lot more than an S&S motor in sheepskin clothing relying on historic badging here, I think. But, you could be right. I really hope not. The bike makes a lot of sense as a contender to the st1300's and Beemer sport tourers out there, especially for those of us who would like an American entry in such a broad-scope category like this. If nothing else, I'm glad they're trying to do something with proven technology from the automotive world. The engine itself is reported to be looked at for a multiple four wheel racing applications as well, being intro'd in a cool bike to boot.

[Baldini]

...The design makes no sense to me....

 

Lots of things make no sense, doesn't stop us doing them

[Guzzirider]

Good luck to 'em and I hope they succeed, although it will be tough.

[Lex]

A couple of comments:

 

"if you buy a motorcycle and at that time you probably arent thinking about DTUPC at all."

 

No but the most important word in DTUPC is "P", price. I bet you think about that when you buy a bike. Every time you make design decision that add increases "C" "P" goes up at a rate of maybe 300% to 500% percent of increase of "C". The result is a reduction in the number of people who can afford your product, it doesn't matter if the product is a toaster or a motorcycle. With limited production ("hundreds, not thousands"), heavy R&D costs (amortized over a small number of bikes) and the strange engineering these guys are heading to a very expensive product and very small pool of buyers. Maybe you are rich but for most of us paying $35K for a bike that doesn't perform any better then a $14 to 18K Yamaha, Honda or kawasaki or a $20K BMW is tough to justify. Its all about the size of your bank book, mine can't stretch that far. If yours can I'm envious. As an example of why I'm so mystified by these guys, will the people who can afford this very expensive product really find hydraulic valve adjustment a compelling feature? Ducati types don't seem to care about the Desmo and rubber band cam drives. The engine would almost certainly be cheaper, need less R&D and make better low end with solid lifters.

 

"I mean Harley keeps putting out that same old dog every year and people still buy them"

 

Not directly relevant to the Motus but: If you put my 2006 Road Glide next to a 2009 they look pretty much the same, unless you are a Harley guy*. However, the bike has been almost completely redesigned. The only significant parts not changed are the luggage, front fender and fairing. A partial list: Front wheel and tire (from 16" narrow wheel to 17" wider wheel, tire bias to radial tire); forks (stiffer springs and better damping); frame (totally new, much stiffer); gas tank (5 to 6 gallons); engine (longer stroke, improved oil pump, cam drive and oil distribution); transmission (5 speed sliding gear to 6 speed sliding dog); new swing arm (stiffer); wider rear wheel and bigger, radial tire; shocks have stiffer springs and better damping and a long list of minor changes.

 

My point here isn't that Harleys are great or to make fun of you. My point is that the motorcycle market Motus is entering is very tough. Harley (and BMW, Ducati, etc.) got by for years sitting on their ass for the most part, not any more. BMW is probably as close as any company to Motus competitor, take a look at how hard they are pushing development. Motus has to build a bike to meet a moving target and then keep pumping money into R&D to keep up. This is really tough for a small company making one product for a fairly small market (sport touring). Anybody want to guess why BMW has expanded from its strangle hold on sport touring? It ain't because it is a huge market with unlimited customers.

 

"You have to change the direction of drive somewhere"

 

No, you don't. 90% of the bikes on the road don't change the direction of the drive. The crank, transmission shafts and rear wheel are all parallel. The rule of thumb says that turning the drive 90 degrees is a 3% power and milage decrease without changing a thing in the engine or power train. With a transverse engine Motus would have that 3% plus less R&D, less weight and a considerably shorter engine front to output sprocket distance. This should allow more the engine to be moved forward for more weight on the front wheel and a longer swing arm, both considered a good things for handling today.

 

"Lots of things make no sense, doesn't stop us doing them"

 

Finally something I can agree with. I really hope I'm missing it completely and the Motus is a huge success. I just think they picked a really tough task and made some choices that took it from very difficult to borderline impossible.

 

JMHO,

 

Lex

 

*One of my friends at work is a life long motorcyclist and hard core Harley guy. He was really upset when the 2009s came out. If you look under front of the gas tank just in front of the engine there is a small bracket that wasn't on the earlier FL frames. The fact that the guy thought that was a major thing gives you some idea of how hard Harley has to work to improve their product while keeping the exterior the same. Like the old story, redesign an apple to be an orange without changing the exterior.

[Tom M]

I don't see how a USA based startup can make it in todays motorcycle market but I hope they prove me wrong. If they can't get off the ground on their own I'd love to see them work out a deal with Polaris/Victory. This bike could fill the large gap in the P/V showrooms between the cruisers, snowmobiles, and ATVs.

[richard100t]

I would imagine that by the time the customer actually takes the time to find a dealer and sit on the bike he knows what it costs and wether or not he can afford it. Would I invest my 401k money in the Motus company? No. I would like to think they did some kind of research that says there is some small market for that bike but it was probably done before the economy collapsed. My point is if they build a good quality bike and market it as something exlusive and special that will appeal to a small amount of people with more money than sense, and they are out there.

Harley Davidson hasnt been doing any better than the rest of the bunch in the showrooms lately either, but that is no doubt because of the economy.

I wish them luck at Motus, but after going to the Cycle World bike show the last 2 years and seeing that even Bmw didnt spend the money to put up a display I know what the deal is. I actually lost my job in November after 20 years with the same company they closed the doors and I joined the ranks of the screwed american factory workers. I'm not ever going to lay down 40k for a bike or 300k for a Ferrari, but I like to look at the videos of them like everyone else.

[Lex]

Richard,

 

First, my deepest sympathy about your job loss. The last thirty years have been tough on the working people of this country. It's funny how that has coincided with 30 years of (mostly) Republican control of the government. I'm lucky enough to be employed in a manufacturing company that is actually profitable and exporting our good outside the US. Best of luck on replacing your job.

 

Second, yes, I'd like to believe Motus did some research but I haven't seen any evidence of that. I think the reason I respond so strongly to these start-ups is I'm sick and tired of getting excited about a new motorcycle company coming along, hiring a bunch of people and making promises and then laying the work force off and disappearing. The people who get screwed are, for the most part, the working people. The Hanlans (spelling?) didn't seem to be hurt at all when Excelsior-Henderson went bust, just the people who worked there and the people of the state that loaned them millions. The only semi-succesful start-up during my life, in the US, has been Victory and they don't make any bikes that interest me. The rest have all crashed and burned.

 

Again, I'd love to be wrong but this looks like the same old story, half baked engineering with a side of delusional marketing.

 

JMHO,

 

Lex

 

 

 

 

I would imagine that by the time the customer actually takes the time to find a dealer and sit on the bike he knows what it costs and wether or not he can afford it. Would I invest my 401k money in the Motus company? No. I would like to think they did some kind of research that says there is some small market for that bike but it was probably done before the economy collapsed. My point is if they build a good quality bike and market it as something exlusive and special that will appeal to a small amount of people with more money than sense, and they are out there.

Harley Davidson hasnt been doing any better than the rest of the bunch in the showrooms lately either, but that is no doubt because of the economy.

I wish them luck at Motus, but after going to the Cycle World bike show the last 2 years and seeing that even Bmw didnt spend the money to put up a display I know what the deal is. I actually lost my job in November after 20 years with the same company they closed the doors and I joined the ranks of the screwed american factory workers. I'm not ever going to lay down 40k for a bike or 300k for a Ferrari, but I like to look at the videos of them like everyone else.

[Lex]

Richard,

 

First, my deepest sympathy about your job loss. The last thirty years have been tough on the working people of this country. It's funny how that has coincided with 30 years of (mostly) Republican control of the government. I'm lucky enough to be employed in a manufacturing company that is actually profitable and exporting our good outside the US. Best of luck on replacing your job.

 

Second, yes, I'd like to believe Motus did some research but I haven't seen any evidence of that. I think the reason I respond so strongly to these start-ups is I'm sick and tired of getting excited about a new motorcycle company coming along, hiring a bunch of people and making promises and then laying the work force off and disappearing. The people who get screwed are, for the most part, the working people. The Hanlans (spelling?) didn't seem to be hurt at all when Excelsior-Henderson went bust, just the people who worked there and the people of the state that loaned them millions. The only semi-succesful start-up during my life, in the US, has been Victory and they don't make any bikes that interest me. The rest have all crashed and burned.

 

Again, I'd love to be wrong but this looks like the same old story, half baked engineering with a side of delusional marketing.

 

JMHO,

 

Lex

 

 

 

 

I would imagine that by the time the customer actually takes the time to find a dealer and sit on the bike he knows what it costs and wether or not he can afford it. Would I invest my 401k money in the Motus company? No. I would like to think they did some kind of research that says there is some small market for that bike but it was probably done before the economy collapsed. My point is if they build a good quality bike and market it as something exlusive and special that will appeal to a small amount of people with more money than sense, and they are out there.

Harley Davidson hasnt been doing any better than the rest of the bunch in the showrooms lately either, but that is no doubt because of the economy.

I wish them luck at Motus, but after going to the Cycle World bike show the last 2 years and seeing that even Bmw didnt spend the money to put up a display I know what the deal is. I actually lost my job in November after 20 years with the same company they closed the doors and I joined the ranks of the screwed american factory workers. I'm not ever going to lay down 40k for a bike or 300k for a Ferrari, but I like to look at the videos of them like everyone else.

[DeBenGuzzi]

I want that bike SO SO SO bad, no way I could afford one though. <_>