picture of my exploded flywheel

[ferguzzi]

I wasn't sure where to put this, so this is a good as any. It had been noisy for as long as I can remember, and those who know have said that crack had been there a long time. Its been replaced by another single plate. The oroginal had about 14000 miles, and 8 years on it.

[ferguzzi]

..and the other side....

[Kiwi_Roy]

..and the other side....

That's not good

How much other damage did you sustain?

Roy

[richard100t]

You're saying this is a picture of a replacement flywheel? I've never heard of a replacement breaking up in the middle like that. Makes me think theres something else wrong thats causing this sort of damage. You arent letting BFG's mechanic work on it are you?

[Baldini]

That looks very similar to the damage john's suffered - ripped the centre out. Lucky to get away with that & no collateral damage - we've seen others where whole unit disintegrated & smashed it's way out through casings whilst in use.

 

You replaced it with a stock Scura/Tenni Ali flywheel ?

 

KB

[Skeeve]

Its been replaced by another single plate.

 

A single plate made of steel, I hope...

[gstallons]

The flywheel in the picture appears to be steel also.

[fotoguzzi]

The flywheel in the picture appears to be steel also.

another failure to learn from the past.. the first version of the Convert came with a pressed steel plate for a fly wheel, it was about 3 pounds and thin.. the same thing happened to them where they spun the middle right out, the fix was a 15 pound flywheel with starting gear in one piece.

 

this is the thin one I modded to trigger the crank sensor on a EV motor,

 

and here's what the other one looked like,

 

[ferguzzi]

Well now, therein lies a very long and boring story.

There are no guzzi dealerships in ireland, unless you count the dodgy one bfg dealt with, and belfast is about 6 hours from me, so not really an option.

So (stupidly), and bearing mind I'm not much of a mechanic, I took the cowards route, brought the bike to my local, but nationally respected bike shop, and let them sort it out. They had never dealt with a guzzi before.

So they ordrered the completely new clutch assembly from Ducati dublin, who then lost it. About 5 months later I got them to order it from moto mecca( a reputable guzzi place in the uk), and a month later it arrived, and they fitted it.

Now I didn't see what they fitted. They just phoned moto mecca, said "I need a full clutch assembly for a tenni", moto mecca looked it up, ordered it from Guzzi in Italy and thats what was fitted.

There was then 6 months(no kidding) of pick the bike up from shop, ride for 50 miles, find massive oil leak, bring bike back, scratch heads. 3 or 4 times.

In the end it seems they had been using a "generic" engine seal/gasket whereas they should have used the bespoke guzzi one. Having eventually phoned moto mecca and been told that "you have to use the guzzi one", they did, so problem solved. <_>

So far so good.

So to answer a few questions, no I don't know what was fitted. steel? aluminium? The original is aluminium(the one pictured), or so I've always thought, so I'm guessing so is the new one.

With regard to will it happen again, well, here's hoping lightning won't strike twice. God, how naiive.

 

BUT THERE'S A PART TWO OF THE STORY.........

 

This bit I'd love some informed opinions-Pete Roper, I'm looking your direction.....

 

I wrote about this elsewhere, but the bones are: I then put 1000 mile on the bike, no problem. the clutch had a very light trigger, but nothing you couldn't deal with.

I take it to Holland, the clutch give up in France. It gets brought to a Guzzi shop, where a greasy frenchman who obviously knows his stuff but can't speak a word of english takes it apart in front of me over about 2 hours.

Now again bear with me if some of my techie speak is a bit pedestrain.... It seems that the clutch pin was not fitting correctly in to the correctly sized orifice. The hole it was trying to fit into had 2 diameters, one wider then the other, and the pin was fitting as far as the wider one, but not the(further in) hole. Basically the pin when moving didn't have full travel. Hence the very light trigger, I guess. So either the pin was the wrong size, or the hole was. And I don't know if it was the original pin.

The mechanic hadn't a clue either. What he eventually did was to bore out the hole to the correct size, and now the pin fits snugly. As far as I know.

But i don't know why it didn't fit in the first place, in other words, what did i get fitted?

When I eventually got to Holland, by car, Paul Minneart reckoned that maybe moto mecca sent a 5 speed clutch assembly, instead of 6 speed.

I dropped into Moto Mecca a few months ago, and explained the story. They could show me the order they had made to guzzi in Mandello, and it was for a Tenni.

So what did Guzzi send?

[docc]

Parts numbers?

[Bruce Reader]

Two flywheels replaced at about those mileages. Forget the 8 years. Caught the first before major damage.

The second went without much warning- Destroying the gearbox and creating a Moto Guzzi with a wet clutch.

 

My personal recommendation would be to put a twin plate on it and be done with it. Sourcing a replacement gearbox

could be a tedious and expensive exercise.

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

 

p.s we thought back a few years back that this was related to a "bad batch" on the Scuras. Doesn't appear so.

[Baldini]

...It seems that the clutch pin was not fitting correctly in to the correctly sized orifice...So what did Guzzi send?

 

If you peep through the timing inspection hole in the bell housing you will be able to see the flywheel & what it is made of.

 

This is a known problem with the OME Scura flywheels & there is a ton of stuff relating to it on this site.

 

It would be v interesting to know what Guzzi supplied as replacement Tenni flywheel, & if it differed from the original. Some components (but not, as I understand, the flywheel) of Scura (& presumably Tenni) clutch were sourced from a company called RAM. I replaced my Scura clutch assembly with a complete RAM unit inc alu flywheel. I guess it is possible that any replacement could be sourced by Guzzi from RAM rather than OME that is known to be problematic? As Docc suggested, did Mecca have part #'s - on invoice perhaps?

 

When I fitted RAM unit I had a mismatch between dimensions of clutch pushrod & clutch centre button resolved by using OME button in RAM clutch. Was this the problem your mechanic had? Was whole clutch assy replaced or just flywheel?

 

The flywheel in your photos appears to be the original alu one.

 

KB

[Baldini]

Two flywheels replaced at about those mileages. ..

 

Flywheel 1 was original, what was flywheel 2 - a Guzzi replacement part?

 

KB

[ferguzzi]

When I fitted RAM unit I had a mismatch between dimensions of clutch pushrod & clutch centre button resolved by using OME button in RAM clutch. Was this the problem your mechanic had? Was whole clutch assy replaced or just flywheel?

 

KB

Got it in one Keith, that seemed to be the exact problem.

The whole assembly was replaced, as that's all that was offered. Looking into the peephole, it appears to be aluminium. I've got the remains of the old assembly and RAM is written on at least one of the parts, but not the flywheel.

I've also got the receipt sent to my local garage from mecca, and it says:

 

0140 clutch kit v11 Tenni (s/plate)....683 pounds.

 

So none the wiser, really. but I'm glad that (sort of) clears up the pushrod/centre button issue, eventhough it seems an odd mistake to make!

If it is a complete ram kit, should I be worried of a repeat in about 10,000 miles?( I'm assuming the ram flywheel is aluminium?)

[Baldini]

My RAM clutch is on 6,500 miles ...still working. I can't comment on ultimate longevity. RAM clutches have been around a long time & I have not heard of this problem occurring with them. I have had one in my Tonti for years - but it doesn't really do much mileage.

 

I do not know why original flywheel fails - but it always seems to fail at the same point: around the edge of the centre washer & radial cracks outward. The edge of the washer is a stress raiser. RAM instructions specify side of washer to face flywheel. Incorrectly torqued bolts would be an issue. Was your clutch noisy compared with other single plates? As I said, John O'Sullivan's (wherefore art thou John?) flwheel also tore it's centre out, & was very noisy compared with mine & BFG's - I remember waiting at lights & you could hear it over the noise of both our bikes.

As you pointed out some parts of the OME clutch are RAM & stamped as such - but there are dimensional differences between the OME flywheel & the RAM flywheel. It is my understanding that the flywheel is not a RAM part. It has been said to me that the flywheel was sourced elsewhere (why?). But wether it's an assembly issue, materials or manufacture - I dunno.

 

Why the differences between the centre buttons? I dunno either. The issue was the length of the pushrod not the width.

 

For anyone interested, this is RAM contact details:

 

R.A.M. di Dell'Oro Adriana

Ricerca Accessori Motori

 

sede operativa

Via Vignazza 2

23851 Galbiate (Lc)

Tel +39 0341 241210 +39 0341 241210

Fax +39 0341 542642

Web www.rammotor.it

 

KB