eas1rider Posted May 23, 2011 Posted May 23, 2011 Some information that I receceived from a number of emails from Agostini's whilst going through the same clutch drama. I have posted these before when i was going through this process a while back, "Yes we have the RAM clutch. The difference is that the Guzzi version used some RAM parts and some parts from other sources. There is no reason to suspect there will be any future problem in the delivery. You may however like to take a spare friction disk at the same time. Please note that the clutch comes ready assembled and balanced and there is no need to dismantle it to install it. It is designed in such a way that the screws are inserted through openings in the clutch centre. The clutch body (the gear that fits to the front of the gearbox and inserts into the clutch) is not supplied in the kit and must be ordered separately if your existing gear is showing wear. If it is ok you do not need to replace it as it is compatible with the RAM clutch. The price of the clutch kit is 450.00 euro and the price of friction disks is 65.00 euro" And... "RAM Engineering is a small company however it is quite well established here in Mandello and is doing a small but consistent turnover in special products for Guzzi. Mainly big bore kits and the RAM clutch. There is no reason to suspect that it will not continue in the same way for may years. The clutch comes with the necessary screws to mount it and is 100% compatible with the existing clutch and original clutch body. In fact the original design for the Guzzi clutch was by RAM engineering but, unfortunately, to save money Guzzi did not source all parts from RAM and therein lies the source of the problem with cracking flywheels. The flywheel was one of the items that Guzzi sourced elsewhere. A new clutch body is available for 86.91 euro. But if yours is not worn it is not worth replacing." This was acouple of years ago now and the clutch so far appears fine...
richard100t Posted May 24, 2011 Posted May 24, 2011 I bought a replacement flywheel and clutch kit on ebay a few years ago just in case. Its still sitting in a box somewhere in the house I'll never need it...unless I sell it.
Baldini Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 Thanks for that stuff eas1rider. I had similar conversation with Agostinis. Unfortunately my kit didn't come with relevant socket head bolts - & I wasn't aware that it should have - so I had to dismantle it to access hex heads - which meant I had to centre it too. Agostinis wouldn't send me bolts seperately. But the issue with the clutch centre button would have existed either way. I solved problem myself by swapping over buttons: Agostinis did not accept there was an issue with parts, & appeared to believe problem was caused by my fitting. It is a simple assembly which I checked over & over, I'm quite sure problem was incompatable parts. You had same problem? KB
eas1rider Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 I can't remember if I used the supplied button or indeed if it even came with an additional button. The entire clutch assembly was complete and was a simple matter of bolting on and torqueing up, with no issues once installed, (long may that continue...)
rossoandy Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 Well my Rosso uses this clutch and its rattled like a cement mixer with a brick in it since new...got no worse. It still works just as well as ever and has a slightly fierce action,like the friction plate is made of a really hard material,its not a soft take up. I be pissed off if mine fails.....its done 25000 miles now...esp if gearbox goes with it!
Steve G. Posted June 6, 2011 Posted June 6, 2011 I wasn't sure where to put this, so this is a good as any. It had been noisy for as long as I can remember, and those who know have said that crack had been there a long time. Its been replaced by another single plate. The oroginal had about 14000 miles, and 8 years on it. I've been reading reports about these flywheels breaking for yrs now. I have to say, if this happened to me, I'd be so pissed at MG, I'd sell the bike. The engineering dept at Moto Guzzi should have been fired for this @#!#$# up. Rosso, Tenni, and Scura models are definitely off my wish list. Steve
Skeeve Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 The engineering dept at Moto Guzzi should have been fired for this @#!#$# up. Ipso-facto, presto-changeO, Piaggio, SHAZAM! There, your wish has been granted ... [sigh] Moto Guzzi is just a Piaggio brand now; no engineering capacity of their own.
jrt Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 @ FerGuzzi- put a magnet on the flywheel. That will definitively tell you if it is steel or not. I have RAM clutch in my Eldorado- on it, there was no 'center button' that could be replaced. the depression for the clutch pushrod was molded into the casting. It was relatively easy to fit up, and everything works just fine with it (touch wood). Of course, it's an Eldo- all of 40ish horsepower- so I doubt I have overtaxed it. And the RAM clutch came with a special replacement inner body that was shorter than the standard Guzzi part.
Guest Cantaloop Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 I bought my Tenni in France. The first thing i did - i changed the single disk clutch with a used V11 double-disk-clutch incl. flywheel. It is a much better feeling when driving about 230 km/h on german Autobahn.
John O'Sullivan Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 My RAM clutch is on 6,500 miles ...still working. I can't comment on ultimate longevity. RAM clutches have been around a long time & I have not heard of this problem occurring with them. I have had one in my Tonti for years - but it doesn't really do much mileage. I do not know why original flywheel fails - but it always seems to fail at the same point: around the edge of the centre washer & radial cracks outward. The edge of the washer is a stress raiser. RAM instructions specify side of washer to face flywheel. Incorrectly torqued bolts would be an issue. Was your clutch noisy compared with other single plates? As I said, John O'Sullivan's (wherefore art thou John?) flwheel also tore it's centre out, & was very noisy compared with mine & BFG's - I remember waiting at lights & you could hear it over the noise of both our bikes. As you pointed out some parts of the OME clutch are RAM & stamped as such - but there are dimensional differences between the OME flywheel & the RAM flywheel. It is my understanding that the flywheel is not a RAM part. It has been said to me that the flywheel was sourced elsewhere (why?). But wether it's an assembly issue, materials or manufacture - I dunno. Why the differences between the centre buttons? I dunno either. The issue was the length of the pushrod not the width. For anyone interested, this is RAM contact details: R.A.M. di Dell'Oro Adriana Ricerca Accessori Motori sede operativa Via Vignazza 2 23851 Galbiate (Lc) Tel +39 0341 241210 +39 0341 241210 Fax +39 0341 542642 Web www.rammotor.it KB Well gentlemen, I'm back, nice to see that flywheels are still flying! I got a RAM replacement from Teo Lamers and it was fitted in Jaca (Northern Spain) but I've done very little with the bike since I've been building a new house which takes a little time. The RAM flywheel is a steel construction to my knowledge and is reliable as Teo Lamers have been using them for years. Best to you all, John
Lucky Phil Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 My RAM clutch is on 6,500 miles ...still working. I can't comment on ultimate longevity. RAM clutches have been around a long time & I have not heard of this problem occurring with them. I have had one in my Tonti for years - but it doesn't really do much mileage. I do not know why original flywheel fails - but it always seems to fail at the same point: around the edge of the centre washer & radial cracks outward. The edge of the washer is a stress raiser. RAM instructions specify side of washer to face flywheel. Incorrectly torqued bolts would be an issue. Was your clutch noisy compared with other single plates? As I said, John O'Sullivan's (wherefore art thou John?) flwheel also tore it's centre out, & was very noisy compared with mine & BFG's - I remember waiting at lights & you could hear it over the noise of both our bikes. As you pointed out some parts of the OME clutch are RAM & stamped as such - but there are dimensional differences between the OME flywheel & the RAM flywheel. It is my understanding that the flywheel is not a RAM part. It has been said to me that the flywheel was sourced elsewhere (why?). But wether it's an assembly issue, materials or manufacture - I dunno. Why the differences between the centre buttons? I dunno either. The issue was the length of the pushrod not the width. For anyone interested, this is RAM contact details: R.A.M. di Dell'Oro Adriana Ricerca Accessori Motori sede operativa Via Vignazza 2 23851 Galbiate (Lc) Tel +39 0341 241210 +39 0341 241210 Fax +39 0341 542642 Web www.rammotor.it KB Well gentlemen, I'm back, nice to see that flywheels are still flying! I got a RAM replacement from Teo Lamers and it was fitted in Jaca (Northern Spain) but I've done very little with the bike since I've been building a new house which takes a little time. The RAM flywheel is a steel construction to my knowledge and is reliable as Teo Lamers have been using them for years. Best to you all, John No Ram flywheel is Aluminium.Just bought one for the V11.Sitting on my dining table. Ciao
Baldini Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 ...Well gentlemen, I'm back... Hey John! Somehow missed your post above - Great to see you around again Been wondering what had happened to you. Best wishes, hope the house is working out. KB PS: RAM flywheel is indeed aluminium.
Lucky Phil Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 ...Well gentlemen, I'm back... Hey John! Somehow missed your post above - Great to see you around again Been wondering what had happened to you. Best wishes, hope the house is working out. KB PS: RAM flywheel is indeed aluminium. Received my RAM clutch kit the other week and read with interest the supposed failure of these flywheels.While it appears to have effected the original Guzzi units and not the RAM flywheels its interesting to look at the RAM flywheel. I noticed on the inner face of the flywheel(the gearbox side) where the crank mount bolts are they have machined a mount face for the large steel washer/plate that the mount bolts go through.The outer edge of this machined face in my opinion lacks sufficient radius and this is where the failures that have occured appear to originate in the original post. I'll be disassembling the clutch unit chucking up the RAM flywheel and opening up that radius before fitting. Ciao
Baldini Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I also looked at this when I got mine, & at the faces of the large washer & bolt holes. It appears to me, in the photos I have seen of fractured flywheels, that the failure is further in, at the edges of that washer & bolt holes rather than at the edge of the machined face. See: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3520&st=94 KB
luhbo Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 You just can't screw down aluminium. The whole idea is ill for a long lasting street bike. Sooner or later it comes loose when the Alu has crept away, then the wheel starts moving and now it's only a question of rather short time until it fails. Hubert
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