8V head smash

[pete roper]

Pete, I looked at your pics of the cam removal, from a couple of years ago, as posted on WildGuzzi.

Some of the links don't work anymore. Could you possibly PM me the address of your Flickr page where they are?

 

I am tempted to go the whole hog and remove the cam / rocker housing so that I can have a look at the bearing surfaces.

 

What is the small allen screw at the rear inside corner of the housing for? It almost looks like it's a grub screw to tighten against the head stud, but surely not?

 

Can you tell me: is there much clearance between the valves and piston heads? As the tappet gap was jammed tight by the shifted rocker assembly, the valves may have been sitting down into the chamber a little at TDC. Is that feasible? I did run the engine a bit after the crash... to see if it was going.

 

 

All the pics seem to be here Dave.

 

http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/196/3381.html

 

If it was running on both cylinders you won't of bent a valve, or at least its highly unlikely.As for the 'Grub Screw' I think you'll find its a plug for the end of an oil gallery drilling.

 

TAking off the cambox is really quite easy. DO remember to loosen the two 6mm bolts with 8mm heads that hold and clamp the back of the cam chain tunnel before you undo the main head stud nuts otherwise you risk warping the head.

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

 

 

All the pics seem to be here Dave.

http://forum.guzzitech.com/forum/196/3381.html

Thanks: they are.

 

If it was running on both cylinders you won't of bent a valve, or at least its highly unlikely.As for the 'Grub Screw' I think you'll find its a plug for the end of an oil gallery drilling.

 

Good. That was my second thought. At first, in the darkish position the bike was sitting in, I wondered if it was an oil gallery to fire oil onto the cam chain. Then, because that side of the cam box wouldn't lift, I wondered if the unit was being held by that screw. – Then – I realised that of course it wouldn't lift off because it's bolted from underneath (which is why the cam chain has to be removed out of the way).

 

TAking off the cambox is really quite easy. DO remember to loosen the two 6mm bolts with 8mm heads that hold and clamp the back of the cam chain tunnel before you undo the main head stud nuts otherwise you risk warping the head.

 

Ahhh... I think that I loosened the stud nuts first.

 

 

 

 

TAking off the cambox is really quite easy...

...as is breaking the tensioner blade.

[pete roper]

Yup. Luckily for you with the RH cylinder you can just take the tank off and pull the plug off the inside of the barrel to release the tension and remove the tensioner plunger. It's only blockheads who have to get in to the left side that run the risk of busting the tensioner!!!!

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

Yup. Luckily for you with the RH cylinder you can just take the tank off and pull the plug off the inside of the barrel to release the tension and remove the tensioner plunger. It's only blockheads who have to get in to the left side that run the risk of busting the tensioner!!!!

 

Pete

 

 

I'll probably drop a pin down into the engine... and that wee 'grub screw' plug.

[belfastguzzi]

[These photos were all taken with camera phone, so aren't great.]

 

Bear with me as I work at this: I can only get time to do it in short bits and pieces.

I'll post more pics as I'm sure there will be people interested to see the 8V internals.

 

Pete, I definitely loosened the stud nuts without doing the 2 inside bolts first. i see them now. They were hidden by petrol tank before.

To confirm – these?

 

The tank was brimful with fuel. All that weight didn't help when bike went down and impacted.

This is the fuel hose that I put on instead of the kinked and split thin plastic o.e. line and non-releasing quick-disconnect. There isn't much room for the thin stuff as the tank sits so close to the engine and other components. The thicker hose is even more difficult to route without squashing. This hose has been squashed as can be seen in the pics.

 

 

The glued repair to the broken tank outlet elbow is holding up ok.

 

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[belfastguzzi]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This is a bit of a worry. Is the line a crack, or just a coincidental marking on the casting? It runs from the corner point of impact!

I hope that it is not a fracture!

[belfastguzzi]

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The rockers, little tappetty tappetty rods and the tappet bowls.

 

 

 

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[gstallons]

BFG, consult with your insurance company. Your bike is probably totalled out........

[pete roper]

It'd be good if it was! He'd be able to buy something else or even a new 8V that hadn't been completely screwed over by a retarded f@ck-knuckle!

 

I dunno if its a write off or not. Depends on what its worth.

 

Just for comparative interest I'll list some parts prices in $AU retail.

 

Cambox-$443

 

Rocker arm-$330

 

Rocker cover-$337

 

Plasic bling for back of rocker cover-$20.

 

Also one of my customers had a lower damage impact on the same side and needed brake lever $173, Toe peg, $30 and rubber $8 from memory and we priced up the oil cooler cowl and it was a whopping $433 so he's living with a couple of minor scratches.If there is head damage? Well I can't bring up a price on a head but I wouldnt expect any change out of a grand.

 

While I haven't seen all the damage I'd be surprised if its totaled. Bikes cost a lot more in the UK and other places than they do in the US so what might be a write off in the USA could easily be seen as repairable. It would be good if it was a write off though.

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

I can't see it being an insurance write-off, Gene, Pete.

I'll inquire about the overall cost of parts and labour and see if the shop has an idea how an insurance company would regard it, but it's hard to win with insurance. No matter what, I'd not get anything near the cost of a new bike.

So yes, put it back together and live with the scratches.

 

The tank and bodywork would need replaced under insurance: that would push the price up a good bit. However the wheels, forks and frame *look* ok (to my eye). They'd be a decisive factor in a write-off calculation, I imagine?

 

To check for a possible crack, is there a reliable diy version of dye penetration that could be used on that rocker/cam casting?

 

One positive is that this incident has given opportunity to put a helicoil insert into the rocker clamp (head cover bolts to it) where Mr Hammer had stripped the thread.

[Baldini]

...While I haven't seen all the damage I'd be surprised if its totaled....

 

BFG will surely know, but looks like a write-off to me, no question. If it's brought back to pre-accident you've got all the motor stuff + exhaust, bellypan + oil cooler? + brake pedal, probably various cycle parts & I doubt the levers, bars etc etc escaped unmarked. Replacing anything that's even got minor damage with new will total up big. Forks? Frame? Dunno if BFG has Comprehensive cover anyhow? Lots have TPFT (third party, fire & theft). I've bought write offs back off insurance co., cheap, done them up myself - it can work out very well, but you have to be sure you have fully estimated damage: with the BMW I mentioned, I hadn't realised frame was twisted til I came to put it back together & settlement was done & dusted.

 

Do you have a claim against a third party for this BFG or is it down to you?

 

KB

[Baldini]

I can't see it being an insurance write-off, Gene, Pete.

Hi David, from what you say, that's a write off. Add up motor parts, tank, bodywork, pedals/levers, etc etc at new prices + shop labour.

But you're right re no-win - they'll likely bump up you're premium even if you have protected no-claimns. Unless this is no fault, which I'm guessing it isn't?

But it may be worth a claim if you have fully comp? They'll offer you peanuts but send them a couple adverts for similar bikes & you should get similar value - £4-5k? & then, in for a penny, in for a pound - you've got helmet, leathers, boots, gloves - min £1k? etc etc. Dunno if you got any injury cover inc? Then make a deal to buy back bike.

It can make sense to go this route, but you have to have fully comp or a claim against a third party, & be absolutely sure you know full extent of damage & claim for everything.

 

KB

[belfastguzzi]

No third party, it would be my insurance.

I was following someone who went off at a bad corner. In the moment of distraction while I looked to see what was happening, my front went and I followed the other bike: except I hit the road and smashed the kerb – the other bike rode up the kerb and then went down, onto grass. So it's my problem.

[Baldini]

No third party, it would be my insurance...

Do you have F comp? Protected no claims? Cover inc Riding gear? Personal Injury?

 

KB

[HaydnR]

I'm sorry to read of your troubles BFG. I've seen bikes written off with far less damage.