Battery go blah (SERIOUS HELP NEEDED)

[gstallons]

here's a pic

 

 

You can do it!

[handtius]

You can repair this with a Maxi-fuse connector and fuse to repair this circuit. The Maxi-fuse will do a better job because ALL of the charging current goes through this fuse. If you want to search the site for this repair , go ahead.

By the way; the alternator output can be tested by disconnecting the bullet connectors and checking for a.c. output ( from the alternator side) with the engine running.

 

hey gstallons, do you think this could be the route of my problem? also, i looked up maxi-fuses andthere didn't seem to be a 10a (which i believe the burnt out one is). can i use a different value?

[savagehenry]

One of my favorite upgrades has been a BackOFF voltge indicator, got it at CycleGadgets.com, NO affiliation, just a customer. For like 32 bucks and change, it's real comforting to know you are currently charging, or in trouble. It's just a single LED light and the control module the size of a wooden match box. Runs through a diagnostic "O.K." at every start up, and then constantly monitors the output of the alternator when you are riding.

And best of all, real easy to mount and hook up. Here's mine saying it's charging, then not, note the RPM's. In the middle, there is a yellow color saying your at 12v.

[Kiwi_Roy]

here's a pic

 

If a fuse melts like that it's not caused by over current it's a loose fuse socket, it heats up the fuse body melting the plastic. You may be able to clean the contacts with emery cloth and bend them together so they have a tighter grip. A 15 Amp will be OK but I wouldn't go any higher.

 

If when you fix the fuse it still isn't charging

Measure between the two yellow wires from the alternator, it should be close to 0 Ohms. I pulled the cover off mine and found one wire was just hanging on by a single strand. I had to replace the wires because the copper had oxidized and it wouldn't take the solder.

Check for AC voltage as Gstallons says.

 

 

BTW Fuse 5 is the headlight fuse, that also supplies the horn as I pointed out earlier, fix the horn and you will fix the charging.

Because of this high resistance at times you have also had serious overcharging because the reference for the regulator comes after the headlight relay, the Voltage after the fuse is low so the regulator thinks the battery is low and cranks up to maximum creating more heat at the fuse and so it gets rapidly worse. Charging current to charging Voltage is not a linear relationship, the current will try to go through the roof limited only by the maximum the alternator can produce. I'm surprised the bike wasn't running rough.

Hopefully your regulator is still ok

Here's how to test the regulator diodes.

Regulator Diode Tests.pdf

 

Another thing I discovered, the bracket the regulator is bolted to is not part of the chassis, it's the horn bracket, just one more reason to run a good ground wire between the regulator case and an engine bolt, I say an engine bolt rather than the battery as the engine to battery connection has to be very good otherwise the starter wouldn't operate.

[gstallons]

If your fuse f5 is the 30a fuse, you can flip the fuse block over and remove the wires going into that holder and inspect the wire quality. If it loks ok you can repair the tension quality of the connector. If not, then I would install a Maxi-fuse holder and 30 a fuse into the circuit. Look at KwiwRoy's diagrams and advice.

[Kiwi_Roy]

If your fuse f5 is the 30a fuse, you can flip the fuse block over and remove the wires going into that holder and inspect the wire quality. If it loks ok you can repair the tension quality of the connector. If not, then I would install a Maxi-fuse holder and 30 a fuse into the circuit. Look at KwiwRoy's diagrams and advice.

 

Fuse 5 should be a 15 Amp

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1999_V11_sport.gif

Good idea to check the wires, just pull hard on the fuse block and it pops right out. It plugs into a couple of rubber grommets.

Are you running any additional driving lights or large headlight bulb?

 

I had my 30 Amp fuse melt like that, it actually welded itself to the holder. I was able to clean the contacts successfully but now I have added a couple of headlight relays and a fuse to drive them, this improved the lights at least by 20% and took the load off F5.

Headlight Relays.pdf

The two diodes are optional, just appealed to my electrical brain.

 

Good Luck

Roy

[baha1000]

I finally go a chance to get back and do a few tests after relocating the regulator ground fix. Checked the fuse with the multi-meter, it was fine, then checked the the homage of the two yellow and it read .7 ohms followed by checking the AC voltage out of the alternator and got about 30 or so volts at roughly 2500 rpm. After reconnecting the yellow wires I was barely able to turn the engine over to restart the bike because I already lost that much power from this month old battery and was getting less than 12v at the battery with the bike running. My regulator has the epoxy backing so are the all the wire leads soldered to the circuit board and is it a bad idea to try to remove the rubber piece the wires run into at the back of the regulator to inspect the wires?

[Kiwi_Roy]

My regulator has the epoxy backing so are the all the wire leads soldered to the circuit board and is it a bad idea to try to remove the rubber piece the wires run into at the back of the regulator to inspect the wires?

 

Don't try to pull the regulator apart just yet, the wires will be ok as far as the board.

Have you done the diode test I sent you a few posts back, each yellow to the red should read 0.5 - 0.6 Volts

If one is open I will tell you what to do next.

 

Get back to us

[baha1000]

The diode test is next then. I'm really grateful for al the guidance and help!

[fotoguzzi]

here's a pic

test your battery too.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I finally go a chance to get back and do a few tests after relocating the regulator ground fix. Checked the fuse with the multi-meter, it was fine, then checked the the homage of the two yellow and it read .7 ohms followed by checking the AC voltage out of the alternator and got about 30 or so volts at roughly 2500 rpm.

 

Handtius - Baha1000, who are we dealing with? 2 different problems on one post makes for difficult troubleshooting.

 

Handtius, is your bike OK now?

Baha1000

From your tests the Alternator seems normal.

I will send you a PM

 

Roy

[baha1000]

I've completed the diode test (the 1.5v battery method) and it failed at both yellow wires testing at each. Also, but without the engine running as the battery needs to be recharged, I checked the black wire out of curiosity and it registered almost 2v less of what I was getting directly at the battery. I'm guessing I have to replace the regulator and if so should I go with a stock replacement or are there better alternatives?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I've completed the diode test (the 1.5v battery method) and it failed at both yellow wires testing at each. Also, but without the engine running as the battery needs to be recharged, I checked the black wire out of curiosity and it registered almost 2v less of what I was getting directly at the battery. I'm guessing I have to replace the regulator and if so should I go with a stock replacement or are there better alternatives?

 

Yes, your regulator would have thought the battery was flat so it kept pumping in current until it's diodes melted. They can be bypassed.

You need to fix that voltage drop.

I think the Ducati regulators are good, it wasn't its fault but your wiring.

If I was going to buy a new one I would check out the one on the later bikes, it connects directly to the battery thus eliminating the reference problem. PM sent

Roy

[luhbo]

 

... Yes, your regulator would have thought the battery was flat so it kept pumping in current until it's diodes melted. ...

 

now that's one interesting idea. How does that work?

 

hubert

[Kiwi_Roy]

 

... Yes, your regulator would have thought the battery was flat so it kept pumping in current until it's diodes melted. ...

 

now that's one interesting idea. How does that work?

 

hubert

The regulator in between output pulses looks at the voltage between the black wire (I call reference) and it's case

If the Voltage is

If the Voltage is > 14 the SCRs stay OFF skipping the next half cycle.

This all takes place at a high frequency 933 times a second at 4,000 revs

Each SCR is paired up with a diode.

The current pulse peaks are quite high, in the order of 30 Amps or more.

 

The reference is tapped off the headlight circuit which draws about 4 Amps. If there was 0.2 Ohms resistance in the contacts 0.2 x 4 = 0.8 Volts drop, the regulator will think the battery is low and try to charge to 14.8 Volts. 14.8 is probably ok but as the resistance gets higher eventually the regulator will overheat melting the solder that connects the diode leads, it's all down hill from there.

 

There are several contacts between the battery and reference, perhaps a fuse, start relay, headlight relay and in some extreme (worst) cases the ignition switch.

 

 

BTW, a bad ground on the regulator I now think will have oposite effect, under charging the battery. If just one diode is melted it will also under charge because it can only send half the number of current pulses to the battery.

The 14 Volt setpoint is nominal, it was 13.8 in the last one I tested.

 

I reverse engineered mine, here is the circuit

Regulator Schematic - With Notes.pdf