new Griso 8V 2011 owner

[pete roper]

There has been a lot of talk about the 'New Cams' in the Griso. While I can't be certain I believe that the PROFILE of the cams hasn't changed, it's still the same as the original A5 cams, but what has changed is that some time in '09 for the MY '10 production year the factory changed the design of the central boss that carries the lobes so that end float in the cambox is now controlled by shims rather than relying on the sometimes haphazard machining tollernaces of both cams and cambox castings. The reason for this change was to quieten the motor down mechanically. As any owner of an early 8V knows they make a hideous racket from the top end all of which is down to cam end float. erradicating that by shimming not only quietens the motor but also seems to have stopped dead cam/tappet failures, (Although I know of no failures on machines that had the recall done properly and had the correct oil used in the motor afterwards.)

 

MY '11 bikes have had further changes to the cambox and 'Plug Tube' design to help erradicate leaks but AFAIK the cam profiles remain the same.

 

Certainly *newer* bikes seem to fuel up better, (The X2-O2 sensor bikes are horribly civilized) but my feling is with the Grisos with only X1-O2 this ismore to do with better set-up ex-factory than any major changes to cams or fueling parameters.

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

The reason for this change was to quieten the motor down mechanically. As any owner of an early 8V knows they make a hideous racket from the top end all of which is down to cam end float. erradicating that by shimming not only quietens the motor but also seems to have stopped dead cam/tappet failures,

 

MY '11 bikes have had further changes to the cambox and 'Plug Tube' design to help erradicate leaks but AFAIK the cam profiles remain the same.

 

Pete

Very interesting (no.1)

So the original cam jumping around, or sliding end-to-end, causes the racket. Why would that relate to the tappet failures?

Aesthetically, I don't mind clattering camshafts so much: for me the worse noise is the huge whine from the top end (cam chain?). What have Guzzi (or Aprilia) done to quieten the whine?

Very interesting (no.1a)

Recently MCN (UK) said that there have been 2 revisions & power modifications to the motor and I thought they were implying 2 mods to the cam: the older mid-range mod that has been talked about and a new current mod/profile mod. ??

 

Very interesting (no.2)

A post elsewhere on this Forum insinuated you had been disappeared, into Enzo's sump. Have you got an internet connection in there; did you escape; or was it just a rumour?

Very interesting (no.2a)

Dan, Dan, Aussie guitar man contacted me! Quelle surprise! I thought that he had been swallowed by the Illuminati sump!

 

Very interesting (no.3)

Your "011 bikes"? I may have forgotten, or never knew... did you get another new Griso? In Australia? Something else as well, or its maybe customers' bikes?

Question (no3a)

What mod have they done to the Plug Tube? You may recall that I have big rust from leaky tube, which makes it even more difficult to extract the plug boot from the tube.

 

Very interesting (no.4)

John Westlake, Senior Editor at MCN has had his V7 Classic taken away (Guzzi needed it for something else) – and replaced with a Griso *SE as his long-term test bike. Very interesting. He professes to be be afeared of it, 'a vast snarling behemoth'.

* SE = Donkey Kong, evidently.

[biesel]

@orangeokie: THANKS!

 

First modifications:

 

I added a "Shocksock"

Traxxion Dynamics Shock Sock - 8" ordered at Reactive Suspension (http://www.reactivesuspension.com/accessories.php),

 

 

Däs/Kellermann rear end:

(with supporting strut and 1 mm alu plate)

 

 

Kellermann turn signals with Däs adaptors:

 

 

The Kellerman turn signals should be ordered at Däs. These are customer-specific versions, which are not glowing when ignition is switched-off!

[biesel]

I also tried the Termignoni for the Griso 8V. But it does not work with the 2011 models out-of-the-box (more noise but less torque WITH db-eater).

My dealer said it is possible by adjusting the injection but I am not willing at the moment.

They did this successfully on another 2011 model.

Update: The other 2011 Griso at the dealer got a customized Rexxer mapping

 

Just sold my Termi:

 

 

After all I am not sure if my bike already has the 68 map. At the first service my dealer told me that the bike has the latest map installed but he was not sure about the version number.

But with the current map and the original exhaust my 2011 A8 Griso just runs fine.

I am waiting now until Däs Mototec has a complete Griso 2011 (A8-engine) exhaust solution ready.

[pete roper]

I also tried the Termignoni for the Griso 8V. But it does not work with the 2011 models out-of-the-box (more noise but less torque WITH db-eater).

My dealer said it is possible by adjusting the injection but I am not willing at the moment.

They did this successfully on another 2011 model.

 

 

Jan, a couple of things here.

 

There is what I believe to be a common misconception about the cams in the Grisos. Because the part number has changed people assume that the MY10 and on bikes have cams with a different profile. If that was the case I would be astounded if the machine was expacted to run with the same map, but ALL Griso's are still shipped with the #52 map.

 

The difference in the camshafts for the later machines is I believe soley that they are shimmed for end float. The MY11 bikes may also of adopted the new cambox design which has been developed to eliminate leak points.

 

I'd also love to know how they would 'Adjust the injection'? AFAIK there are no ways available to break the map encryption to allow the actual map to be modified. At least none that are cheap and readily available. A PCV/AT is also IMHO not a brilliant sollution for the Griso due to the very long cam overlap. The reliance on EGA to control the mixture is fraught with problems on this motor with these cams.

 

I would strongly suggest that before you can the idea of the Termi you get the #68 map uploaded remembering that after this is done the TPS mustbe re-set, ballance the throttle bodies, (Once again if adjustmant is made to the high speed ballance the TPS must be re-set again.) and try running the bike in otherwise stock trim with the dB killer INSTALLED.

 

In this trim my bike makes 104.8 RWHP, has no dip in the midrange detectable by the rider, doesn't pop on the over-run unless I feather the throttle and delivers 20km/litre fuel ecconomy at highway speeds.

 

Pete

[biesel]

Hi Pete,

thanks for this info.

 

I guess the dealer is updating the map and re-setting the TPS, but this is just guessing.

 

I must admit that I am a little bit frustrated that this solution does not work out of the box.

So don´t trust the the Moto Guzzi brochure, it´s not telling the truth.

... and I like the sound of the stock muffler better.

[luhbo]

I've seen a couple of stock Grisos (4V and 8V) and also Stevios lately in Switzerland. The sound of the OEM cans is hard to beat on these bikes. Same with the styling, for me at least. Nice thing, they really sell actually, compared to the older models.

 

Hubert

[Paul Minnaert]

Pete, here a comparision between the stelvio 52 map and griso 68 map, +10 means the 68map has 10% more fuel injection time. Ignition time doesn't make much between maps. And yes there is almos free software to edit 5am maps, even switch lambda off.

 

fuel

 

 

 

 

ignition

 

 

[luhbo]

Could you post a absolut value spark map, please? The actual one.

 

Thx, Hubert

[Paul Minnaert]

Could you post a absolut value spark map, please? The actual one.

 

Thx, Hubert

 

These are values the marelli counts with

[luhbo]

...These are values the marelli counts with

 

Thank you, Paul, most helpful. You know what the numbers stand for?

[Paul Minnaert]

...These are values the marelli counts with

 

Thank you, Paul, most helpful. You know what the numbers stand for?

 

no, but since you are interested, you can download the map editor free, here: http://ecmtool.free.fr/

 

and enough maps to fill your whole weekend: http://jpl250rs.perso.sfr.fr/MAPS/

 

and the forum topic about it: http://ducatidiag.xooit.com/t556-ECM-Outils-de-customisation-de-maps.htm

[luhbo]

Now I say really Thank You Paul. Will look at it tomorrow. Will you come to Mandello next week?

 

Hubert

[Paul Minnaert]

Now I say really Thank You Paul. Will look at it tomorrow. Will you come to Mandello next week?

 

Hubert

 

 

Yes I will be in mandello, traveling thursday-friday. Have not decided on the route, enough tempting options.

 

 

 

[luhbo]

I looked it up. That's a difficult task, indeed. Letzebuerg alone would make for a nice three day trip. I'll start Friday early, highway down to the Alps, and then I'll see. Probably St.Moritz again, or Spluegen via Thusis. I walked Thusis-Chiavenna 3 weeks ago, took us 4 easy days. My left knee still hurts badly. It was Great nonetheless

CU down at the altar

Hubert