Guest Randy Turk Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I have a 2000 Sport with 8,000 miles on it (purchased the bike new one year ago). When riding on just about any type of road I feel like I'm back in 1970 riding my '56 rigid frame panhead. The bike will jar the hell out of me. I have tried different settings on the suspension front and rear. Have gotten articles on setting suspensions. Currently I have Avon Azaros F/R. The only thing that has ever made a difference in the ride is to lower the tire pressures (33F/36R) , but the harsh ride is still there! Is this just the bike? Has anyone had similar problems and what did you do? Randy Turk Olympia WA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vkerrigan Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Randy, I believe the bikes come from the factory with springs (front & rear) calibrated for a person of 165-170 lbs. If (like me) you weigh more than that, then most people compensate by increasing the compression damping which (for me) led to the same symptoms you describe. I recently changed the fork springs to a value good for my riding weight and the difference in ride and road compliance is amazing. If you search the site here, there are several threads and numerous posts as to determining spring rates, vendors, etc. If you would like additional info as to who/what I used, send a PM and I'll be glad to get it to you. Happy Trails!............vkerrigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Dave Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I too found the suspension settings too hard on my 2002 Le Mans as delivered. I haven't tried heavier springs yet, but I did reduce the preload on the rear suspension (spring length now 150mm, delivered at 145mm). Dampening settings are reduced to:- Fork Compression -4 clicks from softest setting Fork Rebound -3 clicks from softest setting Rear Compression: 16 clicks from closed (+) position Rear Extension: 24 snaps from closed (+) position I'm about 200 lbs so in theory should be looking for heavier springs, but I haven't managed to bottom out my suspension yet, and the softer dampening does not produce wallowing when banking hard into corners, even if I hit an unexpected bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Randy, I'll start by saying my opinions are my own and may not agree with anybody else. If you do a search you'll find lots of discussion on the V11's suspension on this site. What I've posted is a result of reading work by experts, talking to experts and a little work on my own over the last thirty years. Given that I am not an expert I think it makes a lot of sense to follow the guidelines of people who are. I'll also add your bike may have been in the hands of a bone head who thinks you "go real fast" with everything set as stiffly as possible. Once you get the bike back to stock (if it is not) try the stock settings, if the problem is still there read on. Remember that suspension is often very counter intuitive, a soft spring can allow bottoming and feel like a "rigid frame pan-head", so can an overly stiff spring, too much rebound (by not letting the suspension extend after a bump) or compression damping. I'll add that V11 suspension can be improved a lot, enough for most folks to be happy, for a small investment but if you want to work really well you are looking at a re-valve (expensive) or replacing the suspension parts (really expensive). I'll start by disagreeing with Vkerrigan and say these bike are set up for a rider under 150 pounds range, not 165-170. The numbers I've seen on preload are why I think the set-up rider was under 150 pounds, everybody seem to be on or over the maximum pre-load, if the bike is set-up for your weight you should be right in the middle of the range. Then I'll show my odd point of view by stating you need to get the springs right before you can do much with the "clickers". There are two reasons for this, first, the bike rides on the springs, not the dampers. The dampers simply modify (damp) the movement of the springs. Second, the clickers only control the low speed damping circuits anyway. Pensky has a very good page on shocks (Pensky page) take a look at the 8100, it is much like the shock on your bike, if you aren't familiar with shock design. The first thing to do is to set the rear preload properly. You can try my uncompleted web page for a "How To" Lex's set-up page. The odds are you'll find you have need more pre-load than is acceptable to get the correct sag, i.e. the spring will be less than 152 MM, proving it is too soft. Keep in mind that you only have, by Guzzi's specs, 5 MM of preload adjustment. If you are 2 MM outside the specified range that is 40%, not a minor amount. Springs are a fairly cheap and easy change, if you need too much pre-load change the spring. I know this is counter intuitive but it is not at all unusual to have a slightly stiffer spring give a better ride than a soft spring with too much pre-load. Keep in mind that the front is as far off as the rear, the standard fix is 0.95 Kg/ Cm spring and changing spacers to set the sag. Any good suspension shop or your local dealer (if he is any good) can set you up with a better fork and/ or shock spring(s). Once you get the springs worked out you can start on the damping. Kiwi Dave's setting might be a good place to start. Damping is much more complex and subjective than springs, I'll say don't fall into the "more is better" trap and leave the rest to experts. Try the Pensky page above, Ractech articles, Guzzi Tech also has some things that might be useful. If hope this is helpful, Lex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IanJ Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Jason at Moto International told me a day or two ago that springs for the 2002 Le Mans (and probably any other V11 with the 41mm front forks) are the same dimensions as for a Yamaha FZ1. He even has a pair of 0.95 kg/cm springs that were lurking in the back, waiting for me to come in. So, that solves the front end for me, but he and his parts manager Aaron had no idea what I could do about the rear spring. I'm 230ish pounds with street clothes on, so I'm probably 100 lb heavier than the intended rider when I've got riding gear and my tank bag loaded on the bike. I'd like to get a stronger spring, since my measured sag was around 2.3-2.5" (I don't recall exactly) with the stock preload. Certainly nowhere near the 25-30mm it should be... The problem I'm trying to solve is that my Le Mans has quite a harsh ride, juddering over small bumps that should really be completely absorbed. I can't tell for sure that the springs are either bottoming or topping out, but I'm pretty sure that setting the bike up for my weight will help things along. So, where does one find a replacement spring for this WhitePower rear shock that comes stock on the 2002 Le Mans? What spring rate is desirable? (What's the stock spring rate, for that matter?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Ian, with your weight and those sag numbers, you are definitely bottoming out and need a stiffer spring. Temporarily you could improve things by cranking the preload until you get the sag right. Some other suspension threads indicate that you may fair well with about a 500lb spring available through various sources. FWIW your rear shock is most probably a Sachs and not a White Power. I weigh about the same as you and have the preload heavily cranked up. There is no bike only sag and a bit over an inch of rider sag. I too, need a heavier spring, or better yet, another shock, pending $$$$. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IanJ Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 What are these "various sources" you speak of? Do you have names or URLs I could check out? Yes, I should probably crank up preload, but I haven't had the gumption necessary to actually get to that damned boxed-in preload adjuster. I'm not unhappy with the shock (I'm just not that aggressive with the bike), but the spring definitely needs some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 The only places I know for sure have the right spring are Linemann Engineering: http://www.le-suspension.com/ And Computrack: http://www.gmdcomputrack.com/ Here are some other suspension related links: Lex's excellent site: http://www.geocities.com/motoguzzi1064/Guz...ensionSetUp.htm Here is a good thread: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...p?showtopic=739 I am still waiting for Mike Stewart to complete the thread... Some of the many sag threads started by Captain Nemo: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...?showtopic=1588 http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...?showtopic=1596 http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...?showtopic=1429 http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...?showtopic=1421 Ohlins Prices http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...?showtopic=1302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Yes, I should probably crank up preload, but I haven't had the gumption necessary to actually get to that damned boxed-in preload adjuster. I'm not unhappy with the shock (I'm just not that aggressive with the bike), but the spring definitely needs some help. It is nice not to bottom out so much. I am a bit of a hack and to lazy to remove the airbox so I took a long drive to the adusters and whacked the drive with a hammer. Tedious, as it takes many whacks to move the rings the half inch of threads that you probably need. Be sure to lube the threads and unlock the lock ring first. Some rings are loose enough to turn by turning the spring....not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IanJ Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Cool, thanks a lot for the links. What I was really missing was the knowledge of which stores actually sell springs. I'll check into that some more when I have a bit more time to think about it. The threads were good review (I've read them all when they were current, but skimmed somewhat because that wasn't my "project" at the time). Looks like I can replace springs for about $200 total (plus tax and shipping), which is about what I was expecting to spend on this little upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 The trick now is to get the right spring rate. Lex and Mike Stewart could probably give you a good estimate of what should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I'm not sure I can tell you what would be right but I think Mike and I can confirm a 550 In/ Lb spring you be too stiff. I'm a lard ass (260#) and the 550 is what I am running. Mike is a fairly good sized guy, and the 550 was to stiff. He is going to a 500, if that works for him it might be a good place for Ian to start. Not much but I hope this helps, Lex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Looks like Jaap demoted me to guest! That last post was from me. Now I can't even edit it to fix my typos. This is what I was trying to say: I'm not sure I can tell you what would be right but I think Mike and I can confirm a 550 In/ Lb spring would be too stiff. I'm a lard ass (260#) and the 550 is what I am running. Mike is a fairly good sized guy and the 550 was too stiff. He is going to try a 500, if that works for him it might be a good place for Ian to start. Not much but I hope this helps, Lex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IanJ Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Excellent, thanks for your input. I'll give the 500 lb/in spring a try when I get my finances in order. I'll have to see if Moto International can order a spring for me, or if I should order it myself (I like to give them the business when I can). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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