First time dyno run

[68C]

I am thinking of taking my bike for a dyno run to set a baseline before I start tinkering.

 

1/ What should I do to the bike before I go, other than basic TPS setup and valve clearances?

2/ What do I ask the dyno people to do? I am a road rider and interested in low to mid range rather that max power.

3/ Do they normally map my ecu for me as it is before any changes?

4/ Do they normally make changes to the map or just suggest them?

5/ What should I expect to happen when I go for this run?

6/ What should I watch out for, how do I know if they know what they are doing?

7/ How long does it normally take?

 

Am I right in thinking the idea is to run the engine with the throttle set to specific positions to match the cells of the map and then load it to a particular RPM and so find out what air/fuel ratio is actually being generated at these points of the map.

 

You may ask why I want to do this dyno run, curiosity is probably the strongest reason - to find out if there are any noticeable changes they can make to set my individual bike up for the way I normally ride.

 

I don't like very noisy exhausts so will probably stay standard, may mess around with the intake side of things, freer flowing. My bike has the front balance pipe.

 

So how do I normally ride? Not too much around town, 25 mile commute of which about 15 is along the busy dual carriagway over the New Forest and the rest twisty lanes, fifty mile rides with friends - we rarely exceed the ton - they like the twisty bits so I will need good drive out of forty mph corners.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Good questions. I have often wondered myself.

I will be watching the response

Thanks for asking

 

Roy

[Bjor]

Good questions. I have often wondered myself.

I will be watching the response

Thanks for asking

 

Roy

Agree with Roy, -will follow the response.

 

Regarding the exhaust, if you plan to do something on the intake side, you should probably also consider opening up on the other side. There are quite a few cans that opens up the flow, sound good, look good and are not too noisy. On my Rosso Corsa I have fitted HPE-cans and Mistral cross-over, and am very pleased with the result. I have also removed the cat that was fitted on the original cross-over, and changed the ECU with one set up without cat. The result is a smooth pull all all the way up, without the irritating "choked behavior" it used to have around 3000 rpm.

[vuzzi]

I still have to install a PC3. Before I do I 've contacted a tuner. The guy told me that open exhausts have an effect on the engine behavour and tuning, but K&N or original filter hardly makes a difference. Ofcource I'm no expert on this, but it's just what I was told.

 

K&N filters do have an effect on the sound and sound level. If you don't like loud exhausts, you might also not like loud intakes.

[Tom M]

Here's my

 

As you mentioned you should go in with the valve lash set/throttle bodies sync'ed and TPS set correctly so that you know you're working from a known good baseline. Both times I had mine done the operator warmed the bike up then did a full throttle run with the exhaust probe installed then looked at air/fuel ratio readout and the power curves to see if there were any spots where he could make improvements in the map. I had to ask him to do some partial throttle runs because I was looking for possible lean spots that might be causing pinging around 5k rpm. You'll need to tell the operator exactly what you're after, particularly if you have a troublesome area that you want to correct. Also, don't pay much attention to the peak hp and torque numbers as they can vary considerably between dynos. The shape of the curves and the area under them make more difference in street performance unless you ride around at 7500rpm all day.

 

If you're looking to improve grunt out of corners without making much more noise an aftermarket rear crossover might help. Below are a couple dyno runs done on my bike, the first with the stock crossover and the second after I added an FBF crossover. Note the difference around 4200 rpm. I attribute the improvement to the crossover.

 

Greg Field tested some crossovers on the dyno a few years back and found the biggest midrange gain with the Mistral crossover. My bike and I believe Greg's too have MG Ti exhaust cans so I don't know if you would see the same midrange improvements if you change the crossover and keep the stock cans. Here's his crossover thread: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11564&hl=mistral

 

 

 

My bike with stock crossover. Note the power and torque dip around 4300rpm:

 

...and with Fast By Ferracci crossover. Note the improvement around 4300rpm:

[Bjor]

K&N filters do have an effect on the sound and sound level. If you don't like loud exhausts, you might also not like loud intakes.

 

I have K&N mounted in the filter box og my RC, and I don't think the sound is very different from the original paper filter, -may be a little. But a couple of my other Guzzis have the oval K&N cones mounted directly on the carbs, -and they are loud...!

[pasotibbs]

My bike is going on a Dyno next Tuesday, I've realized it's the only way I'll ever get my map sorted....hopefully anyway

[Baldini]

68C, Which dyno you going to?

[68C]

I have'nt decided where to take the bike yet, there are a few around here, most seem to be DynoJet franchise. I can't see the point in fitting a PowerCommander if the stock ecu can be reprogrammed and wonder if they will only set up the Dynojet product.

 

I have also been looking at the MyEcu from Australia which may mean I am on my own when it comes to applying the results of a run. In all things its best to know what you want before going to buy it, hence my original post asking for advice.

 

There seems to be two distinct types of Dynos, absorbtion and inertia. The absorbtion being much more expensive and thus rarer but able to load your engine to any torque or HP figure and hold it while air/fuel ratios, gas analysis and any tendency to knock etc can be observed, it's what most multi-discipline engineers would regard as a true dynamometer. The inertia type (as used by the PowerCommander folk) detects the rate at which your engine can accelerate a heavy drum. I understand the original weakness of the inertia type was the short time span the test covered, once accelerated up to the max RPM its over, small engines will of course take longer than more powerfull engines but it will not record a constant state. I gather modern dynos and software have improved things though. Still not sure how you would discover what is happening at all the (240?) points of a typical map with the inertia type.

 

Any advice on what I should look for?

 

Cliff, if your there, what would you recommend I ask the dyno operator to do if using an MyEcu?

[Baldini]

I have'nt decided where to take the bike yet...

 

You're asking questions far above my pay grade - I just paid a man to do it - but my understanding was that you couldn't re-programme the stock ECU, hence PC111. Cliff's myECU has good rep - have you seen: http://www.cajinnovations.com/yabb0/YaBB.pl & on here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13803 ?

 

Do you know Moto Corsa at Three Legged Cross - close to you? Mike Russell-de-Clifford there has been involved with Guzzi for yrs & is very good on setting up FI etc. They use Dyno at Crescent Suzuki around the corner from them. Just thinking Crescent will be familiar with Guzzis & it's close by. That's the route I went & was pleased with what I got. Even if you don't choose to use him it might be worth a chat: http://www.motocorsa.co.uk/

 

KB

[Guzzirider]

The stock ECU can be reprogrammed- I had the ECU on my V11 flashed by HTM in Germany- I believe that Hartmut used Ultimap software.

 

I've got good results out of a PC111USB- recently had my cafe racer set up with a custom map by Dynobike in Malton. Great guy who took his time and talked me through the whole process as he was remapping my bike. The reason I used a PC was that I had an old one which BFG sold back to me a few months ago, so it was a cheaper option that getting the ECU flashed or other solutions.

 

I am from Hampshire originally and I know that Moto Corsa have had plenty of happy punters who they have taken to Cresecnt Suzuki.

 

Cheers

 

Guy

 

P.S. Heard a whisper that the latest ECU on Grisos / 1200 Sports etc can now be flashed and reprogrammed.

[pasotibbs]

My bike is going on a Dyno next Tuesday, I've realized it's the only way I'll ever get my map sorted....hopefully anyway

Didn't go well on the dyno!

The dyno guy was used to PC's and couldn't get the Autotune on Myecu to work so we went open loop and tried to set the mixture manually with the optimiser but that wouldn't work properly either,he altered the mixture but the bike ran exactly the same !!

I connected the laptop and tried to change the settings but that would appear to work for a couple of cells then suddenly stop working and the software shut down before I had saved the changes.

I have no idea what was going on but the end result was after 4 hours and £120 I am no closer to good AFR than before but know that my current map is way off , rich below 5000rpm and lean above!!

Probably something really simple that I'm missing but at the moment it's really tempting to give up and put the stock x-over,exhausts and ECU back on !!

I'm going to leave it for a few days until my mood improves !!

[68C]

Sorry to hear about your experiences, to be honest I was worried about getting myself in much the same situation which is why I raised the original post.

 

Good luck.

[Cliff]

I often have guys wanting to rush off to the dyno as soon as they get their MyECU. I try and discourage it.

There's a couple of things I try and point out.

1) Don't go to the dyno until you're familiar with the way MyECU works.

2) Go through a couple of map iterations of your own first.

2) Don't expect the dyno operator to do it for you. Its rare that they would have any interest in learning anything different. Even if they did don't expect them to pick it in a few hours.

 

68C, my recommendation would be to spend the money on an LC1 and not worry about the dyno yet if at all.

 

If you do go to a dyno soon I recommend to keep it simple and short. Don't worry about the inertial types. Just get a couple of runs from low revs to red line at a few throttle values, 1/4 1/2 3/4 full when running open loop and then go home with the graphs and make the changes offline.

 

 

pasotibbs, unless we've been corresponding via email, it was 11 months ago that you seemed to be set on the right foot with closed loop and the Optimiser. I would have expected you to have your map nailed by now or at least posted something about the issues you were having.

[luhbo]

 

... I recommend to keep it simple and short. Don't worry about the inertial types. Just get a couple of runs from low revs to red line at a few throttle values, 1/4 1/2 3/4 full when running open loop and then go home with the graphs and make the changes offline...

 

I have the My15M running since fall 2004, MK1 first, then until today the MK2. For me that's 100.000 km. I never had a problem with EFI during these years that were caused by this hard- or software. In fact it helped me a lot when I was facing other problems like a worn TPS or actually worn injectors (10% offset).

It's exactly as Cliff says: keep it simple. The more buttons/options you have on a EFI system, the less you should use them as long as you're not 100% sure about what exactly they're doing.

Nevertheless, the engines we deal with are really very tolerative. I say it's very unlikely one will do any harm to his' as long as he sticks to the standard map provided with each unit, for instance.

Try it out, it's fun and it's an experience I at least would not want to miss.

 

Hubert

 

PS: if you don't get your bike properly running with the OEM ecu, then there is a good chance you will run into problems with the MyEcu either. Maybe because of other parts failing, maybe because it's just not your business.