Ok to use E10 biofuel on V11 Sport?

[rossojoj]

Does anyone know if you can use E10 biofuel (German 10% biofuel Super Octane 95) on a Moto Guzzi V11 Sport (Ballabio) from 2004? thanks. Jonathan

[luhbo]

Technically speaking it's not a bad fuel. An austrian magazin (REITWAGEN) did a rather interesting series of articles about that stuff. Tenor was: use it. Basically the same was written in MOTORRAD.

If you still are afraid of it or don't want to buy it because of political reasons you don't have to. Super95 in E5 quality still is available everywhere, and will probably be so for the next years.

 

Guzzi officially says they're still testing or investigating or whatever.

 

Hubert

[Steve G.]

I'll assume that this German E10 is 10% ethanol. This fuel does and had effected the plastic/nylon fuel tanks of ALL V11 Sports/Lemans' models. The same company that made these, Acerbis Italy, also makes the tanks for Ducati, [monster, Classic series, 1098/1198] of which there is a class action lawsuit with problems of expanding/warping tanks, bubbling paint, etc.

In my opinion, ethanol enriched fuels are not even good enough for my Honda lawnmower, absolute shite!!!

 

Steve

[luhbo]

Yes, that's what the forum says. In fact E10 means 'up to 10% are allowed', it can be less. Same with E5 we have to buy since don't know when. Up to 5%. I never heard of swollen tanks here.

On the other hand, for my lawnmower I usually take what I find in the garage, mostly gas used for washing parts in it. No probs either.

 

Hubert

[docc]

With my 2000 V11 Sport, I wonder if the tank would have expanded like this and begun to bubble like this without the ethanol.

 

Perhaps not.

 

The motor seems to run a little lean in spite of all efforts. Ethanol?

 

I suppose I could make the fantastic effort of sourcing non-alcohol fuel and see what happens over time.

 

IMHO, alcohol has better uses . . .

[Steve G.]

Well, heads up guys. It is an issue, and info like these sites are the result:

 

http://pure-gas.org/

 

http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/ducati-facing-us-lawsuit

 

http://www.stayontheblack.com/ducati-in-class-action-lawsuit-for-gas-tank-issues/

 

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/77-sport-classic/97926-tank-spreading-europe-germany.html

 

Steve

[GuzziMoto]

When your 2004 V11 was sold in the US it was supposed to be required to be able to run on up to 10% ethanol.

Can it? Well, my wifes 2000 V11 has been running just fine for over 50,000 miles on fuels that typically have contained up to 10% ethanol. There does seem to be an issue with the plastic of the fuel tanks but I have not seen any real proof that it is ethanol causing it (just a lot of assumptions and speculations) and since ethanol has been a standard for ages it is stupid to blame it if there is a problem with a component that is supposed to be compatible.

Or you can get up on a soap box and start yelling.

[Steve G.]

When your 2004 V11 was sold in the US it was supposed to be required to be able to run on up to 10% ethanol.

Can it? Well, my wifes 2000 V11 has been running just fine for over 50,000 miles on fuels that typically have contained up to 10% ethanol. There does seem to be an issue with the plastic of the fuel tanks but I have not seen any real proof that it is ethanol causing it (just a lot of assumptions and speculations) and since ethanol has been a standard for ages it is stupid to blame it if there is a problem with a component that is supposed to be compatible.

Or you can get up on a soap box and start yelling.

 

I guess you can use what you want, i really don't care. If you want to call all this "just a lot of assumptions and spexculations", it's a free world.

When you say ethanol has been the standard for ages, how long do you define ages? If you read, you will understand that ethanol was partially a stop gap measure to replace the additive mtbe, which was seriously affecting ground drinking water everywhere. Enter the all powerfull corn farmer lobbyists in Washington, and that nutbar Al Gore, a here we are.

 

Steve

[luhbo]

Al Gore, lobbyism and plastic tanks were different things I thought. Does my tank know what pol. direction I fancy? How that? Or, on the other hand, as our tanks are coming from Italy, is there any chance/risk Berlusconi's sex life will influence our's?

 

Hubert

[Steve G.]

Al Gore, lobbyism and plastic tanks were different things I thought. Does my tank know what pol. direction I fancy? How that? Or, on the other hand, as our tanks are coming from Italy, is there any chance/risk Berlusconi's sex life will influence our's?

 

Hubert

 

 

 

 

 

sigh,,,,,,,,

[The Monkey]

Really- what you ride should be able to function on the fuel available. While I dont like to see corn fed beef on my plate, Ethanol and feed lots for the time being are a reality. Some companies claim no ethanol in one grade while up to 10% in others. I was on a tanker once where we delivered the same fuel to 3 different companies, course that was when lead was still used but... One cruise ship company even toyed with bio-fuel (silly phrase as all petroleum products are in theory Bio based) but when a small vessel (relatively) consumes 140 tonnes/day, there just isn't enough land to keep up with it. Modern passengers though were just thrilled despite the popcorn smell on the upper deck. Daft. It really was just a test to mix corn based fuel with the kerosene and run it through the turbines and hasn't been repeated. Marketing adventures.

Make sure the insulation on the bottom of your fuel tank is in good shape, I redid mine using self stick ducting insulation and got better coverage than the stock affair, the venting is the other thing to verify. I've never had an issue with the modern additives, but there are too many horror stories to discount- some tanks balloon, some don't, some companies acknowledge this, some don't. Fill up and ride. If your bike stops due to incompatibility with what is widely used or available, put down the sidestand and walk away. Hunting down a specific fuel station is like only eating in one restaurant, or only drinking one kind of beer. Branding isn't just for cows.

[GuzziMoto]

 

When you say ethanol has been the standard for ages, how long do you define ages?

 

Steve

Around here ethanol has been an option since the '70's, common since around 2000 (as I recall), and required since about 2005.

And it is the primary fuel in Brazil. Do they sell Guzzi's or Ducati's there?

 

I do read, and I keep an open but skeptical mind when I do so. Because someone on the internet says something happened to them and this is why, I don't automatically believe them. Especially when my own experience says otherwise. As mentioned, I have been running my bikes on a gas ethanol blend for a while. I do not know what part, if any, ethanol plays in the fuel tank issue. But it does seem stupid to blame the ethanol when most if not all of the bikes affected were supposed to be able to run on up to 10% ethanol. Even if it was the ethanol eating the tanks the fault would seem to be with the tank, not the ethanol.

I don't see what political views has to do with this either. My bikes are all non voters. They have no political affiliations.

[Dan M]

The effects of ethanol are not just speculation. Industry professionals agree it attacks plastics and fiberglass. It is pretty well documented by ASE. Manufacturers that use composite fuel tanks that have been deforming have blamed ethanol content. The boat industry is also having issues. Evenrude has a pretty good explanation here: http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_ethanol_danger_precaution.html

 

The engines can run just fine on 10% ethanol. The problem with the stuff is it's long term effect on composites and once composits start to degrade what it does to the rest of the fuel system.

 

More actual Ethanol info here: http://www.worldofmolecules.com/fuels/ethanol.htm

 

And here by Toyota showing permeation of E10 on various plastics: http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/carfg3/toyota_prstn.pdf

[Steve G.]

 

When you say ethanol has been the standard for ages, how long do you define ages?

 

Steve

Around here ethanol has been an option since the '70's, common since around 2000 (as I recall), and required since about 2005.

And it is the primary fuel in Brazil. Do they sell Guzzi's or Ducati's there?

 

I do read, and I keep an open but skeptical mind when I do so. Because someone on the internet says something happened to them and this is why, I don't automatically believe them. Especially when my own experience says otherwise. As mentioned, I have been running my bikes on a gas ethanol blend for a while. I do not know what part, if any, ethanol plays in the fuel tank issue. But it does seem stupid to blame the ethanol when most if not all of the bikes affected were supposed to be able to run on up to 10% ethanol. Even if it was the ethanol eating the tanks the fault would seem to be with the tank, not the ethanol.

I don't see what political views has to do with this either. My bikes are all non voters. They have no political affiliations.

 

 

I'm a fence sitter politically, and don't want to bring politics into this. Politics is for ametuers, facts are for grownups. I was simply bringing to note the original reason ethanol was brought in as a widely used additive, and the high profile person who promoted it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332231/Al-Gores-U-turn-corn-ethanol-I-mistake.html

 

I simply and without any agenda bring forth caution to using 10% ethanol blended fuels in vehicles with plastic or fibreglass fuel tanks. As the thread title asks for thoughts on this subject, I simply bring forth what I think is pretty strong evidence that there is a concern. It seems obvious from the feedback I'm in the minority, and I'm ok with that. You guys can use 100% ethanol and it will not cost me any worry, in fact it might be a good test subject to see what happens, I'd be very interested to see the results. I've done my part to at least bring to light evidence for my thoughts. Personal skepticism is a healthy thing, but don't you think it would be wise to at least offer the thought of a possibility of this problem, rather than throw it all out and say just use anything?

 

Steve

[GuzziMoto]

Sorry, I was just trying to answer your question and thought I would throw in a little info on where I am coming from and how I came to my position.

I do accept that ethanol may be the reason for fuel tank issues, but as I pointed out the fuel tanks in question were supposed to be compatible with the ethanol and if they are not it seems stupid to blame the ethanol. I also offer up the idea that some people, including myself, have used gas containing up to 10% ethanol for a long time with out suffering these fuel tank issues.

There are a lot of additives in gasoline and they vary from location to location and from one time of year to another. The cause of the issues could be any combination of those additives, ethanol may or may not play a part.

 

I did not feel the need to say that there may be an issue as several people had already said that. Therefore I simply was trying to point out that some of us use fuel with ethanol in it and have no issues.